Evidence of meeting #140 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was queer.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jody Jollimore  Executive Director, Community-Based Research Centre
Joël Xavier  Administrator, Conseil québécois LGBT
Gabriel Girard  Researcher, Sociologist, Centre de recherche de Montréal sur les inégalités sociales et les discriminations
Rachel Loewen Walker  Executive Director, OUTSaskatoon
Martha Smith-Norris  Board Chair, OUTSaskatoon

4:55 p.m.

Board Chair, OUTSaskatoon

Martha Smith-Norris

Given my background, it was something that was very easy for me to accept. To tell you the truth, she actually told me.... We were in a bookstore. We always used to go to bookstores and she had been looking around the adolescent and teen section. She came up to me and said, “You know, Mum, there are no books about gay adolescents and teens. There are no novels and no other books.”

I said, “Oh, that's interesting. That's a big gap. We should talk to them about that.” Right after that, when we went home, she told me that she was gay.

She was only in grade 8 at the time. My main concern was just about her age and about what she would be facing in her school and in her community, but that is exactly when we discovered OUTSaskatoon. We went online and we found this fabulous organization that was immediately welcoming to her. It provided the kind of support that we talked about, through the youth group called Rainbow Coffee, which meets every week for this age group.

She would look forward to going to Rainbow Coffee every week. That's what she would look forward to for the following week.

I will add that a lot of other parents, as we know, are not as supportive and helpful and open to their children coming out. We do see that at OUTSaskatoon all the time. That's part of the reason why we needed to develop Pride Home for those children who have literally been rejected by their families.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

Does Pride Home make an effort to reach out to the parents to try to enlighten them on the reality?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, OUTSaskatoon

Rachel Loewen Walker

Yes. We do lots of mediation. We always say that anyone who walks through the door is welcome to services. Whether it's a mother and daughter who are struggling after the daughter comes out and they need counselling together, or they're supportive and they're figuring how to do it. We do lots of mediation both in our counselling program and in Pride Home, because the best thing is to rebuild that relationship so that they have a long-term....

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

It's for their own mental health, to have the support of parents.

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, OUTSaskatoon

Rachel Loewen Walker

Yes, absolutely.

It makes a huge difference. That's why they're in the home—one hundred per cent. It's because they do not have the support of their families.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

You have about six people in the home at a time?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, OUTSaskatoon

Rachel Loewen Walker

We have six right now. It's full. It's always full.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

You talked about needing sustainable, dedicated federal funding. What is your budget in a year?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, OUTSaskatoon

Rachel Loewen Walker

It's $100,000 to run Pride Home.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

Okay.

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, OUTSaskatoon

Rachel Loewen Walker

It's nothing. OUT's budget is a million, but it's $100,000 to run Pride Home in a year. It's all we need.

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

Any ideas of how many other Pride Homes are in Canada?

4:55 p.m.

Executive Director, OUTSaskatoon

Rachel Loewen Walker

Well, I know shelters have been created. You've heard already about Sprott House in Toronto. Pride Home was the first long-term home for LGBTQ2 youth. Since then, there's Lulu's Home in Regina, as I mentioned.

There are different models. Across the country, everyone I talk to says, “Oh my gosh, we need that. We're doing this.” It's definitely a very pressing contemporary issue that people are working on in different ways and in different jurisdictions.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

The time's up.

Did you have something more to add to that?

5 p.m.

Board Chair, OUTSaskatoon

Martha Smith-Norris

I was just going to add a few words about the model we have developed. I think it is quite special compared with what else is available, because the youth are accepted into the home between the ages of 16 and 21. They can live in the home until they're 22 or make other living arrangements.

They come to the home, of course, voluntarily. It's a youth-centred model. They actively participate in the decisions that affect them. They are supported by all of the wraparound services that OUTSaskatoon provides, including counselling and other educational and social services. They're guided by a live-in mentor and a full-time staff person.

As you can imagine, all of that does cost money, so that's why we....

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Okay, now we're moving to Mr. McKinnon for five minutes.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

I want to talk about intersectionality, so I believe this is a question for Mr. Girard. It seems to be a sociological sort of thing.

As we go through meeting after meeting and we talk to all of these organizations, I am somewhat overwhelmed by the intersectionalities. If you look at the LGBTQ2 acronym itself, all the categories it embraces and all the different ways they intersect, and then you add age groups, racialized groups, language, culture and you name it, it seems overwhelming. How do we...?

I guess I'm looking for some guidance on how to navigate this complexity. Where do we focus our resources, or can...? We can't necessarily do every permutation and combination. Is there some way we can focus our efforts to deal with things in a meaningful way?

5 p.m.

Researcher, Sociologist, Centre de recherche de Montréal sur les inégalités sociales et les discriminations

Gabriel Girard

Thank you for your question. I'll try to answer it as clearly as possible. My colleagues will be able to supplement my response.

Intersectionality is a very useful approach to understanding the intersections of gender and sexuality, which can be found in the LGBTQ+ acronym. It's also a useful way to understand that the people in this community aren't only LGBTQ+, but also people of colour, seniors and youth. There are several other socio-demographic factors that come into play, including employment and income level. Obviously, this leads to complexity, and it isn't always easy to make public policies that address complexity.

Nowadays, we have a great deal of research data. Even though the data is insufficient, it enables us to pinpoint where the intersections create specific areas of vulnerability. We could focus on the population group of young, non-white, racialized transgender people. These people are subject to racism and transphobia for a variety of reasons, and they're young and they have fewer resources. I'm also referring here to the complexity in the targets, because we can also assume that older transgender people face specific issues.

Intersectionality is really a reading guide to help us pinpoint the main areas of vulnerability. Of course, this approach isn't a policy per se. However, it can help us guide the allocation of resources and better understand the health needs of specific communities.

5 p.m.

Executive Director, Community-Based Research Centre

Jody Jollimore

I just want to say—and I think this is building on Gabriel's point—that not all intersections are created the same. You're right: there is a plethora. There could be many combinations, but we know that certain intersections are having worse health outcomes than others.

I think that's what we're trying to underscore to this committee. Certainly what we're hoping that the report will underscore for the minister is that there are certain areas that the federal government can act on, and that's where we're really seeing the poorest health outcomes.

5 p.m.

Liberal

Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

I'd like to invite the other witnesses, if they wish to respond.

5 p.m.

Executive Director, OUTSaskatoon

Rachel Loewen Walker

Absolutely. I think one of the linchpins of intersectionality is self-determination and recognition of people's ability to define who they are, to identify themselves and not to be assigned to pre-determined categories.

If we think about it, even sitting around this room, we are much more diverse than our categories of language enable or allow us. Intersectionality does not mean that we need to create a million separate or unique programs. It means that we need to create programs that enable people to be these diverse intersectional selves.

As well, it means that we need to take equity into account. It means that we need to focus more on those groups—I am also following up quickly on an earlier question—such as two-spirit youth, for example, who definitely have drastically more negative health outcomes than Caucasian queer youth. That's intersectionality.

The research we can conduct points us towards those areas where we need to put more resources and focus more attention to bring the levels of health care up.

5:05 p.m.

Administrator, Conseil québécois LGBT

Joël Xavier

If I may add to that, one thing that would be helpful would be that instead of building a system that's made for white cisgender young people, start building a new policy or a new thing with the experience, first, of people who are typically the most marginalized. Asking those people, paying them for their knowledge, hiring them, giving them opportunities to express themselves, using them as key informants before even starting to develop a policy, and really centring those experiences means that the end product will actually be much more universal.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Thank you very much.

Now we go to Ms. Gladu.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Again, thank you to the witnesses. I have some difficult questions; I think they're difficult, anyway.

We've talked a lot about the stigma people experience in the LGBTQ area. If we did develop medical services or mental health services specific to the LGBTQ, should we be advertising them as such? Or would that not be a good thing with respect to the stigma?

5:05 p.m.

Executive Director, OUTSaskatoon

Rachel Loewen Walker

I would say it's both/and, right? If you don't advertise them well, people won't know they're there. This mapping project is brilliant. Let's do that 100%. We need to be able to find things both within our communities and without. It's really great for everybody to see well-advertised and supportive services specific to those who are queer, trans and two-spirit. At the same time, there are also wonderful opportunities for people to have anonymity. Sometimes it's about having two different entrances to an office, because we have that too; we have people who do not want to walk through our door because it's terrifying. I'm sure everyone here experiences that.

So it's about figuring out ways for people to access services, whether it be online or anonymously. Finding things online is actually a really great way, but I think it's both.