Health Committee on Dec. 13th, 2016

[Darshan Singh Kang, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Yes.

[Mostafa Askari]

What we are doing right now really has nothing to do with the provinces in general. The only thing we need from the provinces is from Quebec, which is to get the list of their formularies in a digital form so we can use it.

This cost is a national pharmacare program cost. How it is going to be structured and managed as a policy remains to be seen. This is not dealing with that issue at all. This is just saying that if the federal government wants to establish a national pharmacare program, with the coverage we have mentioned here, this is what the overall cost cost would be, now and over time. Then obviously the next step for the federal government and the provinces would be to negotiate and establish some kind of structure to deal with that and to deal with the current programs that the provinces and territories have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Your time is up, Mr. Kang.

Mr. Davies is next.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

I think most of my questions have been covered. I'm not sure that I fully understood the answers to Mr. Oliver's questions about trying to keep this under $100,000 and whether that's possible. If I understand correctly, though, if it is under $100,000, you don't need the special authorization.

[Mostafa Askari]

That's correct.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Could this committee give you direction to request that you spend up to $99,000 collecting the data?

[Jean-Denis Fréchette]

That's included—always.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Always, and then we see where we're at or...?

[Jean-Denis Fréchette]

We're back to this question about the quality of the information and the required information to use for the model and the projections. I'm in the hands of the committee. Of course, the committee can ask the PBO to do whatever and spend only $9. It doesn't matter; you're going to have the quality or the availability of data for that amount of money.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Do you have to purchase the data in one fell swoop, which would be over $100,000, or can it be done in an incremental way? For instance, if we said to spend up to $99,000 and see where that takes you, then you could always come back to the committee, say, in three months from now or four months from now, and then purchase additional data—or do you need to purchase it in one fell swoop at the beginning?

[Jean-Denis Fréchette]

It depends on the contract. With some companies it is possible to split, for example, over two fiscal years. It's not always possible. In this case, we don't know.

As I said, we are negotiating. We're still negotiating the contract. Sometimes.... I'll go back to this procedure or these signing authorities. It's very difficult for me to say that I'm going to spend $98,000 in fiscal year 2016-17, and then I'm going to spend another $1,000 on April 2, just at the beginning of the fiscal year. You see the problem. You see the situation. I will be looked at. In terms of my signing authorities, even though I would technically respect these signing authorities, it will not be perceived as being totally fair.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm not asking, assuming you spend over $100,000, how you split it into two fiscal years. I'm trying to ask if we can keep the global amount under $100,000. I'm just wondering if it is possible to go to the company, say that you want to purchase data for $95,000, get that data, see if that's sufficient, and then, if not, come back to the committee for additional money. Is that possible?

[Jean-Denis Fréchette]

Additional money from the committee? The committee will not provide.... For the moment, the agreement is not that the committee will provide any money. The cost will be....

Why doesn't the PBO ask for money from this committee? If we have to spend that amount of money—$50,000, $90,000, or over $100,000—we plan it within our budget, which is what I did so far. It's planned in the budget.

We certainly can do incremental...I say “certainly”, but I'm looking at Mark at the same time. We may try to negotiate a series of contracts over time, but then the limit of six months will not be respected.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Fréchette, when do you think you can come back with a more finalized terms of reference?

[Jean-Denis Fréchette]

Can I get back to the committee on this? Can we discuss that in the office and then—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Yes.

Time is up.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

That concludes our session for questions.

I have one question, though. When you say it has to go to the Speaker, is it the Speaker who decides? Is there a committee, or is it just the Speaker?

[Jean-Denis Fréchette]

This is the process. We, the Library of Parliament, have a contract. Before signing the contract, we send it to the two Speakers. In their procedures, it's written, “for approval in principle”. This is the wording that I'm quoting. Then they make a decision on it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Okay.

[Jean-Denis Fréchette]

The decision can be no. The decision can be yes. The decision can be that the two Speakers refer it to the Liaison Committee. I don't know. I have no control over the decision, of course. It's their decision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Thanks very much.

This is just to put it into perspective. I read a headline this morning in the The Hill Times that we spent $134,000 to have dinner with Mexican officials. We're talking about a health care issue that could possibly—we don't know yet—save billions of dollars every year. I think we should have a proper study and fund it properly. We'll decide that, I guess, later.

Thank you very much for the update. I appreciate your contribution. We'll probably seek your advice again soon in the new year.

[Jean-Denis Fréchette]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

We're going to adjourn for a few moments, and then we'll go into committee business in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]