Evidence of meeting #46 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was study.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
The study on the costs of this would be far less than the study on pharmacare. Pharmacare is such a comprehensive thing. It would be much less, so I think it could be done in a reasonable length of time.
Dr. Carrie.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Maybe I could ask Sonia a question. Is that data out there already, so perhaps we don't even have to involve the PBO ahead of time? If we had those numbers ahead of time, it might help us frame the study a little better.
March 21st, 2017 / 11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
I don't think there is any relevant data, because it's different.... For example, my riding, Brampton South, is a hub for diabetes. Maybe that does not impact other areas. It is the same with indigenous diabetes; it's as high as a mountain. It's not specific data out there. That's why I want us, as the health committee, to listen to the witnesses, because this is an epidemic. A lot dollars are going into it. It's inter-related to other diseases as well.
If in the three meetings we can listen to witnesses, then we can make a report on strategy to the House. In the meantime, the PBO, even though we can look into other jurisdictions, can do the analysis. Why don't we want to go with the PBO first? Because we already are giving a lot of work to the PBO for our pharmacare analysis, and we are waiting for the report.
The other issue we are talking about is Ms. Gladu's bill on sickle cell, and I think this is an important issue as well.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
My apologies. I miscommunicated. I was wanting the analyst to comment on it.
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you, Colin.
I'll just rephrase my question. Ms. Sidhu, I'm still unclear. Did you intend by your motion to have the PBO just cost out the current costs of diabetes to society and the future projected costs if we do nothing? Is that what you're....
11:30 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
If that's the case, then Dr. Carrie's amendment would make some sense. We could get him started now. If all we want to know is what it is costing us and what it is going to cost us, then there is no reason to not request that now. I misread it and thought that we wanted to maybe factor in how certain anti-diabetes strategies that we might adopt might change that.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
I think that's what it meant. When we are considering anti-diabetes strategies and explaining to the PBO what to do, maybe we will have more data if the witnesses first come here. Then the PBO will have more of a sense from the witnesses about its costing, and can make a better report.
11:35 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
So you do want the PBO to look at the impact of strategies on the cost?
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
I was wondering if the analyst could comment on what data might be available that we could get ahead of time just to....
11:35 a.m.
Karin Phillips Committee Researcher
CIHI does collect data on cost per patient, and so would be looking at direct costs, the incidence within the population, and what direct impact there is on the health care system. Then you can usually do some analysis on indirect costs in terms of productivity. I can't speak for them, obviously, but the data does exist. They should be able to do that type of analysis.
In terms of the costing of strategies, that's something else.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Mr. Chair, the rationale for my amendment is that we could have a better, more fulsome study if we have a baseline ahead of time. But I'm happy if we maybe just ask the analyst before we get going on it to provide the information that we can have easily at our disposal.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
You're proposing that, instead of having the PBO go first, the analyst can provide it, even a ballpark?
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Yes. If we can't get consensus on having the PBO give us a baseline in advance for it, it's not enough to me; I'm not going to oppose this notice of motion. I think it's an excellent study to bring forward. I think we may need more than three meetings. We also just need to look at the timeline if, because we are so busy, we don't get to it until 2018. It would be great if we could complete the study before we go to another election. That's my rationale.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
Darshan Singh Kang Liberal Calgary Skyview, AB
I agree with Dr. Carrie here. I think maybe the PBO could start a study while we bring the witnesses in here. Then once we're done with the witnesses, the study will be complete. I don't think we should be doing the study just for the sake of studying if we're not going to use the data to formulate our study and how we're going to deal with this issue.
I think it makes perfect sense to ask the PBO for the cost analysis. They can take it into consideration while we bring the witnesses here, and then they can complete their study instead of waiting until after the witnesses. I think that would take a long time. That's my suggestion.
11:35 a.m.
Liberal
John Oliver Liberal Oakville, ON
I was just going to say that the Canadian Diabetes Association in 2009 analyzed the costs of diabetes in Canada and then projected those to 2020. I think we know what the baselines are. I think we can ask the PBO; there's a model there for them to use. I don't see why we.... We can certainly look at how they costed it and give that as a direction to the PBO. I think we can get on with it as per the motion. I don't think we need to have a restrictor on it.