Health Committee on May 16th, 2017

[Anne-Marie Ugnat]

The Public Health Agency is collecting data, but not specifically on PTSD. We have data on mental illness, but, as I said in my opening remarks, PTSD represents various challenges.

We usually work with our partners in order to establish good case definitions, which are not perfect—progress—but are suitable to satisfy the stakeholders and the experts in the field so that we can collect better information.

It would require working perhaps with StatsCan to develop specific surveys, or working with the provinces and territories to get them to help with the data they are already collecting.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

So it's already there, but it's about improving the tracking to make sure we see the incident rate—

[Anne-Marie Ugnat]

It's about improving the tracking, the case definitions, and the level of specificity in what the provinces already track.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you very much. I'm out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

This completes our seven-minute round.

We'll go to our five-minute round, starting with Ms. Harder.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

I echo my colleagues in saying thank you for coming and for being with us today, especially Ms. Harris. Thank you so much for your testimony. It's a privilege to be able to hear your story and how PTSD has impacted you and your family specifically. Again, thank you for being so vulnerable with us.

I just want to clarify a point here with you, Ms. Ugnat. If I understand you correctly, what you are saying is that a federal framework would better allow us to collect data with regard to the prevalence of PTSD, and then respond with proper programs and adequate treatment. Is that correct?

[Anne-Marie Ugnat]

There is still a lot of work to be done.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

You don't know the prevalence of PTSD; you only know mental health in general.

[Anne-Marie Ugnat]

Yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Putting a national framework in place would allow us to specify PTSD stats, would it not?

[Anne-Marie Ugnat]

It would permit us to develop work to look at PTSD. It's not to say that we couldn't focus our attention on that now also.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Would a national framework bring unification to all the provinces and better assist that process for you?

[Anne-Marie Ugnat]

It could, but I think the devil is in the details. The information they have in the province is sometimes not specific enough. It probably would require provinces to work more or change their definition.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Again, a national framework could help bring unification to that, could it not?

[Anne-Marie Ugnat]

It could, yes.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Okay. Thank you.

Ms. Harris, if it came down to getting this bill passed the way it currently exists with a focus on first responders, or stalling the bill or perhaps not passing it at all in order to draft a new bill that was more comprehensive in scope, not just focused on first responders within the preamble, would you recommend that we take a step back and expand the scope of this bill before moving forward, or do you feel there is an urgency to move forward with regard to first responders?

[Natalie Harris]

I definitely feel there's an urgency. I 100% support moving through with this bill now. The reason for that, again, is not to make any life or family less important, but with this on the table right now, we will make progress with helping people who are listed. Those lives will be affected 100% in a positive way. Stalling it will equal lives lost.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

Dr. Sareen, I will ask you the same question.

[Dr. Jitender Sareen]

As I think through it, I think it is very important to move it forward. We do know that first responders are at higher risk for PTSD than civilian populations. I'm absolutely supportive of moving the bill forward. I think the addition of indigenous women is an important one to consider. I think that will require more discussion and partnership with first nations communities. I think it is important to focus on the paramedics and first responders and learn from and work in partnership with the military and veterans to look at improving access and care.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Dr. Sareen, would you say that right now with regard to first responders and PTSD levels we're in an epidemic; that there is an urgency to this?

[Dr. Jitender Sareen]

Yes, there is an urgency to this. I think the rate of PTSD among paramedics is not well known in Canada. Dr. Nick Carleton from the University of Regina is leading a study on this. Soon data will be available in Canada, but certainly there is much more recognition both in Canada and the U.S. that people are exposed to significant traumatic experiences as part of their work. I think it is really important to address it. Just as with military veterans, there's been much more of an emphasis on helping the system in the last 10 to 15 years.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

That's perfect. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Next we have Ms. Sidhu.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you to all the witnesses and to Ms. Harris for the very touching testimony.

Dr. Sareen, are you aware of any other clinical trials taking place in Canada or elsewhere of innovative treatment approaches for PTSD like virtual treatment or anything else?

[Dr. Jitender Sareen]

There have been trials in the U.S. using virtual reality exposure treatments so people can have what's called stress inoculations so they can be prepared to go to war. We have recently reviewed the literature on resilience training. Most of the studies that have been done around those trials have not been shown to be effective. We were funded by the Workers Compensation Board to develop an online cognitive behavioural therapy program for building resilience among public safety officers. We're just launching into that now.