Evidence of meeting #60 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Howard Njoo  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Infectious Disease Prevention and Control Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. David Gagnon
Jean-Paul Bédard  Vice-President, Public Affairs, Canadian Blood Services
Margaret Fearon  Medical Director, Medical Microbiology, Canadian Blood Services
Ralph Hawkins  Clinical Associate Professor of Medicine, University of Calgary, Cumming School of Medicine, As an Individual
Elizabeth Zubek  Family Physician, Shepherd's Hill Medical Clinic, As an Individual
Karin Phillips  Analyst

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

I would hope that we could carry this conversation over a little bit into the next meeting, so we could have a chance to absorb the testimony and think a little bit about what our next step is. I agree with Mr. Webber that, since we have asked for an opportunity to review the framework, there should be an output. There should be a letter to the minister.

What I'm thinking about right now and what's come out of the testimony is that there clearly is another perspective on Lyme disease that has not really come out through the testimony. I've reviewed some of the literature in preparing for this, and I know, for instance, there's a Dr. Patrick in Vancouver. There is a perspective that the science around Lyme disease is not as consistent with, I think, some of the anecdotal perspectives we're hearing. I'm just wondering if we want to have one day of hearings to hear a few of those other perspectives to round out our perspective on this before we write the minister.

I'll summarize it by saying this. It seems to me, clearly, there's no question there are Canadians who are suffering legitimate issues. They go to their doctors and there seems to be a real lack of understanding of Lyme disease in this country, so they don't get a diagnosis. That causes them to go do their own research, and, in some cases, to consult private clinics and get private diagnoses. They become convinced they have Lyme disease, but there's a large body in the medical establishment in Canada that does not believe that. They don't accept that it's Lyme disease. It's not that they don't believe that they're sick, but they don't believe that it's necessarily Lyme disease. We haven't heard any of that testimony from anybody. I'm in my colleagues' hands on this, but I'm wondering whether, if we're going to be writing to the minister, we want to hear that voice to be complete before we consider....

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

My own thought is that your last question hit the nail right on the head: there is a divergence of opinion. If we get another opinion, it's just going to confirm your question. Every one of the witnesses agreed that there was a divergence of opinion on the science, and I think that's what we will learn from more witnesses.

Mr. Webber.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

Very quickly, Dr. Hawkins also mentioned a retired doctor in the United States, and you took his name and suggested that we look at the research he did and the work that he did back 20-some years ago when there were no guidelines. I think that would be very interesting to maybe send to the committee and to perhaps include in our final report or letter as well.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Was that Samuel?

12:55 p.m.

Karin Phillips Analyst

Yes.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Okay.

Mr. Oliver.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

John Oliver Liberal Oakville, ON

With respect, I do think we've heard from the other opinions. They're buried in the CDC's work and in others of our established science-based research groups that are looking at disease and taking new and emerging practices. As I said, the 2006 guidelines were reviewed in 2016 by three very significant authorities on disease tracking, management, and treatment.

I think we have a very strong science-based view, which is CDC's, and then we have a number of types of experiential evidence that is out there. I don't think that, as a committee, we can be in a position to judge the merits of research. I just don't think we have the skill set to determine what is the best research.

I think we can advocate for a process that makes sure that the patient voice and the provider voice are present with the research bodies so that there is a challenge of rigour in making sure the best diagnosis and best treatment processes or protocols are in place, and that the researchers and the scientists are looking at the new material regularly as it comes up. I think it's setting a dynamic process as to where the committee can best do its work, versus hearing from different research bodies about what it is.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

What about if we propose that this committee review this in 24 months, review the progress?

Go ahead, Dr. Carrie.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Perhaps I could ask the clerk again to check what the minister stated in her comments. I actually think she gave us that opportunity. Whether the timeline was in there, I'm not sure. Could you get back to us in the next meeting?

June 8th, 2017 / 1 p.m.

The Clerk

Sure.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Go ahead, Mr. Webber.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

I have a very quick comment, and you brought it up, as well, about the five-year period in the framework. To me, that is just not satisfactory. I'm glad you brought it up. As well, 24 months is still a long time, Mr. Casey.

I would like to see a review of this sooner than that, but it's up to your discretion when to do it.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Go ahead, Mr. Davies.

1 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

I'll pass.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

We'll ask the analysts to draft a letter. We'll look at it when it's ready and decide what to add or subtract from it, and then we'll go from there.

I guess that's it. I think we did a good thing.

Thanks very much, everybody.

The meeting is adjourned.