Evidence of meeting #66 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was youth.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
John Oliver Liberal Oakville, ON
You weren't recommending, then, a minimum pricing. It was something that was more price sensitive to the level of THC.
2:20 p.m.
Director, Research and Policy, Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction
Yes.
2:20 p.m.
Scientific Advisor, Institut national de santé publique du Québec
In Quebec, we have a lot of experience in controlling alcohol and tobacco. With a monopoly on purchasing and public and private distribution points, Quebec is quite successful in controlling the illegal alcohol market, even though there are products that are illegally produced. That is the first part of the solution.
Perhaps cannabis—
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
John Oliver Liberal Oakville, ON
I'm sorry, but we did hear from the police chiefs' association that the presence of organized crime in this space is pervasive. It's ubiquitous. It's not at all like the alcohol system. I think you would have to go back however number of years it was to when we legalized alcohol to understand the black market consequences.
I'm sorry for interrupting.
2:20 p.m.
Scientific Advisor, Institut national de santé publique du Québec
This can be seen from a long-term perspective. We have gradually dismantled the illegal market in Quebec. You referred to prohibition, which did not occur in Quebec. As regards alcohol, we can say that we have not lost control over the black market in Quebec. There is one, but it is not large.
As to tobacco, the last estimates that I saw—
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
John Oliver Liberal Oakville, ON
Sorry to interrupt, but on the alcohol side, wouldn't you agree that there are multiple brands, with multiple marketing? Limited ciders can go from 2% up to 90% proof. There is a wide range of product and a wide availability of product. It's not very narrow or restrictive—i.e., you can get this type of alcohol or that type of alcohol.
So the competition was effective by product variety. But you're recommending against that for cannabis.
2:25 p.m.
Scientific Advisor, Institut national de santé publique du Québec
I will get back to product variety later on.
Our main thrust was to propose a not-for-profit model. This model revolves around a monopoly on purchasing with distribution points, whether public or private. We have not decided on public and private control of the distribution points. The key in our view is the not-for-profit model.
Since you mentioned it, the SAQ's monopoly on purchasing has not limited product variety
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
John Oliver Liberal Oakville, ON
Yes, I understood the non-profit. I think maybe it was Madam Chapados who was talking about limited product variety and limited offerings.
Did you not raise that?
2:25 p.m.
Scientific Advisor, Institut national de santé publique du Québec
No, I was referring to creating an environment in which, ideally, the substance is not normalized. Our position is as follows. In order to facilitate the transition from an illegal market to a legal one, we must attempt to reflect the market. This market has not been documented; it is still not understood.
We therefore recommend a cautious approach. There is no question that a range of products and of THC content is needed. I was referring instead to derived products such as hats or branded merchandise. On the one hand, they create an environment that normalizes the substance.
On the other hand, as regards product diversity, there still has to be access to a product. Does that mean that multiple forms and types of products should be made available? Whether milkshakes, muffins, chocolate or candy, there is a very wide range, but these strategies are designed to cultivate new client groups and attract people who might not have consumed the substance otherwise.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to all of our witnesses. Definitely I want to thank you all for your work to try to help reduce the number of youth who are taking cannabis.
One of the concerns we have heard is that the potency of marijuana today is increasing compared with where it was. I'd like to hear from each of you your view on being able to grow four plants in the home, where there's no real control of potency and where children live and can be exposed to it.
2:25 p.m.
Member, DFK Canada Advisory Council, Drug Free Kids Canada
Listen, I live with addicts every day. They're in my office. These regulations will not stop people from growing their own. They will, they have, and they always will.
Yes, it is more potent. They do cross-breeding. They've increased the percentage of THC up to the 20% and 25% that get people very stoned. A lot of analogies are made with alcohol versus cannabis, but don't forget that you get rid of alcohol over the next 12 hours. Cannabis is a highly lipophilic substance. It's dissolvable in fat. It dissolves in the brain tissue. It's there, and you pee it out four to six weeks later. There is a cumulative effect, especially in the young and developing brain, which has all of the nefarious cognitive impairments that we talked about before.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
2:25 p.m.
Member, DFK Canada Advisory Council, Drug Free Kids Canada
I'm not okay with it, except that they'll do it anyway. That's why I'm saying that public education is the way that we'll avoid kids getting into it.
2:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Drug Free Kids Canada
Perhaps I can make this analogy. I've spoken about alcohol being the number one substance being abused by teens today already. They're consuming it, and they're getting it somewhere. How have the tight regulations with alcohol worked for us? We're the number one consumers of cannabis in the world already. The question is, and has always been, about getting back to the source of why they are doing this, because no regulation will change that.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
2:25 p.m.
Director, Research and Policy, Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction
I would echo the comments of my colleagues that it really underscores the importance of prevention messaging, public health messaging, for parents, young people, and youth allies, the people who interact with youth, about the effects of cannabis—for better education.
2:30 p.m.
Scientific Advisor, Institut national de santé publique du Québec
The answer has two parts. We said that home cultivation must be allowed and therefore regulated. The key is that it should be not for profit. Regarding home cultivation, the options we presented include user co-operatives, thus access points for not-for-profit sale. In the case of home cultivation, there are certain issues such as toxicity due to mould in homes and normalization of the substance around children. We have considered these issues. In the overall framework, we are favourable to user co-operatives cultivating agricultural land, for instance, to encourage the shift away from home cultivation to locations outside the home.
2:30 p.m.
Scientific Advisor, Institut national de santé publique du Québec
I would simply like to complete what my colleague said. That would have to be discussed with Public Safety Canada, but in terms of practical control, it should be noted that user co-operatives are often registered and have a list of members. That means we would know where things are happening, which would prevent chance discoveries.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you very much.
This is for Dr. Porath and Mr. Paris.
Dr. Porath, I think you said you had a national mandate to reduce harm for alcohol and drugs. I think that is great. Have you been aware of any government programming to do the kind of prevention education with parents and the public since the Liberals announced in 2015 that they were going to legalize marijuana?
