Evidence of meeting #71 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was criminal.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John Clare  Director, Cannabis Legalization and Regulation Branch, Department of Health
Philippe Méla  Legislative Clerk
Paul Saint-Denis  Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice
Diane Labelle  General Counsel, Health Canada Legal Services, Department of Justice
Eric Costen  Director General, Cannabis Legalization and Regulation Branch, Department of Health
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. David Gagnon

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Yes.

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

We're going to PV-8, an amendment proposed by Ms. May.

Is there any discussion on PV-8?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We now come to NDP-9, and again, if adopted, NDP-10 cannot be moved.

Mr. Davies.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Again, if we can't move from a criminalized approach to cannabis to a regulated one, at the very least we should be putting in reasonable and proportionate criminal law sanctions. This amendment would do so by replacing the criminal jail sentences of more than two years, in some cases five years or 14 years, with two years less a day, and to proceed by summary conviction only, not by indictment.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Seeing no further comment, I call for a vote on NDP-9.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

I would like a recorded vote, please.

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

On NDP-10, are there any comments or discussion?

Mr. Davies.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

This is the last attempt to amend the 14-year jail sentence with something that would permit the imposition of a conditional sentence in an appropriate sentence by a judge. I would move that we amend this clause to have a maximum 14-year penalty changed to nine years.

I would also ask for a recorded vote.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Seeing no one wanting to make more comments, we'll vote on NDP-10.

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 10 agreed to)

(On clause 11)

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

We have PV-9, again proposed by Ms. May.

Is there any discussion on PV-9?

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Is this on clause 11?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

This is on clause 11.

Mr. Davies.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

I don't know if this speaks exactly to the amendment, but we didn't hear a lot of evidence on clause 11, but this is the proposed subsection that says:

11 (1) Unless authorized under this Act, the importation or exportation of cannabis is prohibited.

From the New Democrats' point of view, and I think from that of the Conservatives as well, the fact that the Liberals limited evidence on this groundbreaking, centuries old, changing of legislation to five days of hearings, and to those who may be listening, saying that there are 90 witnesses sounds like a lot of witnesses, but when you have 35 million Canadians and many groups and stakeholders who were shut out of testifying before this committee, including ordinary Canadians, young Canadians, licensed producers, and edibles manufacturers, of whom we heard none, it leaves gaping holes in this legislation and sections of this bill on which we're left without any testimony at all.

I've been wondering, since those days of hearings, what the rationale behind prohibiting exportation of cannabis and cannabis products would be.

In my research for this I have talked to licensed producers who have licences from the federal government, distributors who distribute in British Columbia, licensed dispensaries, and manufacturers. We had a number of excellent witnesses testify before this committee who have decades of experience in cannabis products, and also in the medicinal use of it as well as in the different products that go along with it—the creams, the tinctures, the sublingual tablets, the nasal sprays, and the vaporizer pans for those who don't want to smoke. They tell me that there are billions and billions of dollars at stake for Canada to become a world leader in responsible cannabis products. They tell me that Canada, right now, if we do get our legislation right, should be able to export our responsible and research-based products certainly to countries or jurisdictions that have legalized cannabis.

We know that Uruguay has. We know Portugal has decriminalized all drugs, although I'm not sure that I understand exactly what they've done. Once California legalizes cannabis, it will be legal from the Mexican border to the Arctic Circle, really everywhere but the border between B.C. and Washington. Yet we are hamstringing what could be a sustainable, science-based, very lucrative, innovative, technologically driven industry and we're saying that Canada can't export any of that to the world.

Again, I wish we had heard a single witness who could have testified what the rationale of this prohibition is and why it's considered a wise course of action. I didn't hear any, so I'm left with only my own experience talking to people who tell me that we're actually risking Canadian entrepreneurs' and Canadian industrial technology's current advantage in the world. Surely other jurisdictions in the world are not far behind Canada and will be starting to develop cannabis products that are safe, that are properly dosed, and that are legal for either medicinal use or otherwise.

I don't know if anybody from the department can speak to why we are, in this bill, banning the exportation of cannabis at least to other willing jurisdictions that would legalize it.

I'd like to know if there are any thoughts on that.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Mr. Clare.

5:15 p.m.

Director, Cannabis Legalization and Regulation Branch, Department of Health

John Clare

Mr. Chair, what I'll point out is that part 1 of the bill kind of sets out these prohibitions and, as you noted, the beginning of the clause begins with, “Unless authorized under the act”, and it's part 3 of the bill that would actually provide the minister with the authority to authorize both the export and import of cannabis. It's actually set out in subclause 62(2) where the minister's authority to issue those licences or permits is limited to cannabis in respect of medical or scientific purposes or in respect of industrial hemp.

That would maintain the status quo as it exists today under the CDSA, where licensed producers or Canadian industrial hemp producers can be authorized to export their product to other countries.

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

May I ask a follow-up question?

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Yes.

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you for that.

You said it maintains the status quo, so I take it that the legislation still would prohibit the export of any kind of recreational cannabis that's contemplated by this bill.

5:15 p.m.

Director, Cannabis Legalization and Regulation Branch, Department of Health

John Clare

That's correct. The minister's authority is limited by that clause I just mentioned to only medical, scientific, or industrial hemp purposes.

5:15 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

My question, though, is why is that the case? I know this legislation only deals with recreational cannabis, so why would we not be able to export recreational cannabis or cannabis products to other jurisdictions that have also legalized it?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Cannabis Legalization and Regulation Branch, Department of Health

John Clare

I understand the question, but as an official, I can't really explain the government's reasoning in making that decision. I can only point out that's the way the legislation is currently drafted.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Ms. Gladu.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Mr. Chair, I agree with my NDP colleague. I was very concerned that we didn't hear testimony from places like Uruguay, which is the only other country to have legalized it. Understanding what they did in this area might indeed be very helpful, but I know that with 272 days left to go, the Liberals are in quite a hurry to get through this.

My question has to do with medical marijuana export. I happen to have a company in my riding that exports to, I believe, nine countries, but as I understand it, under the current treaties we've signed with the UN, there's a limit to the amount that Canada, as a nation, is allowed to export. Will they bump up against that in terms of this legislation?

5:20 p.m.

Director, Cannabis Legalization and Regulation Branch, Department of Health

John Clare

I can't speak specifically to what you're saying under the access to cannabis for medical purposes regulations, if what you're saying is, in fact, accurate. We can endeavour to provide an answer. What I can say is that under the cannabis act, if it's enacted by Parliament, a new framework would be established in regulations that would deal with the import and export process. That's to be decided by government, I would say.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Ms. Labelle.