Yes.
Evidence of meeting #89 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cigarettes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #89 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cigarettes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1 p.m.
A voice
Yes.
1 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Don't worry, I'm coming back to Mr. Ostiguy on this.
On the plain packaging, I'm going to be a little harsh on this. I view tobacco products to be an addictive carcinogen. They have no redeeming features whatsoever. We're the health committee, so I think we should be doing everything we can to stamp them out.
I think the tobacco industry is like a corporate zombie. It just keeps coming and coming if we don't close every single loophole. That's the experience, I think, Australia has.
I'm curious on the plain packaging. Is there strong enough language? I'll put it this way. The federal government, in terms of the brand names on the package...“the proposed regulations concerning plain packaging, Health Canada did not include the option of further regulating brand names beyond limiting the number of words they [can] contain.”
Is that strong enough, or are we going to see “Smoking Makes You Taller, Richer, Better Looking, and Sexier Inc.”
1 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
We're certainly concerned about that, given what has already happened in Australia, where they have these extended names to try to have these lifestyle or positive images created. I think that when Health Canada does the regulations, they should ensure they clamp down on that to avoid this type of messaging.
1 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Ms. James, you showed us what I consider to be some of the worst marketing. This is marketing to young women. It looks like a cosmetic. This is the type of cigarette they market that says “vogue” on it. Does Bill S-5 ban these slim cigarettes?
1 p.m.
Senior Manager, Health Policy, Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada
The proposed regulations will, but an amendment to make sure that happens in Bill S-5 would be beneficial.
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Do you have any advice to give us in terms of the size of packaging? Should there be a standard size and feel of packaging as opposed to these different—
1:05 p.m.
Senior Manager, Health Policy, Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada
That's a great question.
These packs are little. They fit in your clutch, in your purse, in your pocket. Youth like them.
Young Canadians hate this pack. It's cumbersome, bulky. The warning is big; it's in your face.
This is what the industry wants, a flip-top, because it's still quite small and cute.
If we can move ahead with anything, it's slide-and-shell. It's a big, clunky pack that has large warnings and isn't easy to carry around.
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you.
Finally, Dr. Ostiguy, you said that e-cigarettes shouldn't be more restrictive to access than cigarettes. I'm going to flip that around. Do you agree that it should be as restrictive, though?
1:05 p.m.
Chest Physician, Associate Professor and Past Director, Smoking Cessation Clinic, McGill University Health Centre, As an Individual
What do you mean? Do you mean the sale of them?
1:05 p.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Yes. In terms of the marketing, the promotion, the labelling, the packaging, would you agree that all those things should be as restrictive for e-cigarettes as for tobacco products generally?
1:05 p.m.
Chest Physician, Associate Professor and Past Director, Smoking Cessation Clinic, McGill University Health Centre, As an Individual
I do agree with Bill S-5 that the e-cigarette doesn't need to be advertised. I see the e-cigarette as a tool for the addicted smoker to stop smoking.
For example, with the Quebec law at the moment, it's impossible for the owner of, let's say, a vape shop to teach his customers how to use electronic cigarettes. It is not that easy to use them properly. They're not even allowed to show the stuff they can sell in their window.
I have an example of a vape shop where they have a blind on their window. They aren't able to advertise the stuff they could sell to an addicted tobacco smoker. Next door is a sex shop with all the stuff in the window, and the door is open. So let's be logical sometimes in our legislation.
The point I'm concerned with at the moment is the fact that the population is under the impression that the electronic cigarette is as harmful as the tobacco cigarette. It doesn't need to be advertised, but at least let the owner of a vape shop teach customers how to use it properly, and allow them to tell them that it is less harmful.
I've seen lots of references to the Australian experience, but I wish people would pay some attention to the British experience—the document issued by the Royal College of Physicians in London, the fourth document published by Public Health England.
In the last report, Public Health England even suggests having vape shops in hospitals. They are suggesting that the national health scheme pay for the electronic cigarette for the addicted smoker. We know very well that the greatest proportion of smokers are people who are poorer and less educated.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
Thank you very much. l have to cut you off there.
Ms. Sidhu, you have seven minutes.
1:05 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Thank you all for being here. This is an important study as we work to keep Canadians healthy.
My question is to Dr. Ostiguy.
You have said that e-cigarettes are a good alternative to encourage people to get away from tobacco use, but many e-cigarettes come with flavours like cotton candy, watermelon, and black cherry. What is the purpose of these flavours? When they come with these flavours, are they not designed to get more people smoking—more young people?
1:05 p.m.
Chest Physician, Associate Professor and Past Director, Smoking Cessation Clinic, McGill University Health Centre, As an Individual
The British experience tells us that electronic cigarettes are used by less than 1% of people who have never smoked. When we look at the statistics about young people taking up vaping, we have to be very careful about the questionnaire. It's not because you used electronic cigarettes once in the past month that you've adopted them.
It's better to look at the way the British people have made up their questionnaire. They ask, “Have you ever used...?”, but also, “Do you routinely use this?” “Do you use it on a weekly basis?” “Have you bought an electronic cigarette for your own use?” The British experience says that fewer than 1% of youngsters or young adults who take up electronic cigarettes have never smoked; most have already started using tobacco cigarettes.
In all these questionnaires, they don't ask, “Have you used an electronic cigarette with nicotine or without nicotine?” They also don't ask, “If you have ever smoked tobacco cigarettes, have you tried an electronic cigarette in the past?” In the proportion of the youngsters who have tried electronic cigarettes, you have the ones who have already used tobacco cigarettes.
We have, then, to be extremely careful about the way these questionnaires are made.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Lesley, can you speak to some of the concerns that suggest e-cigarettes used by young people might lead to tobacco use?
Do you not think they can attract youth?
1:10 p.m.
Senior Manager, Health Policy, Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada
There are a lot of questions around whether e-cigarettes are a gateway to tobacco use. There are Canadian studies that say that longitudinally, when we look at a cohort of young Canadians, those who try e-cigarettes are more likely to initiate tobacco use a year later. There's still a lot that needs to be known, though.
What we are concerned about is whether, when nicotine becomes legal in e-cigarettes, these youth will now have a nicotine addiction. Will this even further increase rates that we're already seeing grow year by year?
In relation to flavours, we want to make sure there isn't a wide range of flavours, such as cotton candy, Hello Kitty, cherry, or whatever it might be. We want things that are appealing to adult smokers, but not youth; we want to make sure that youth in general don't see marketing of these cigarettes, because it might lead to tobacco use later on.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Thank you.
My next question is to the Cancer Society. Many Canadians still smoke tobacco, and many are becoming regular smokers each year. What can we do to reduce the number of new smokers? How can smokers kick the addiction?
1:10 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
We need a comprehensive strategy. Many things work in combination. Plain packaging is part of it; banning flavoured tobacco is part of it. There's a great opportunity for Minister Petitpas Taylor, with the renewal of the federal tobacco control strategy. The current one expires in March 2019.
There have been consultations. The minister has been working on a new strategy, and that is a great opportunity to restore some initiatives that we previously had for cessation, youth prevention, enforcement, mass media campaigns, policy development—all of the different elements we can have that can really make a difference.
1:10 p.m.
Liberal
Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON
Dr. Collishaw, what do you think about this? How can we reduce the number of Canadians impacted by the harm of tobacco smoking?
1:10 p.m.
Research Director, Physicians for a Smoke-Free Canada
We've made good progress in recent years. Most of the progress we've made against tobacco in recent years has been due to a lower rate of uptake among youth. I would like to see that trend continue.
The challenge we face with this bill is. I'm afraid that it may open the door for young people to pick up this product and become addicted to nicotine. We'd like to prevent that before it happens and carry on with other measures to strengthen our comprehensive tobacco control measures so that we can continue to lower tobacco use among our youth.
1:15 p.m.
Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Cancer Society
Just to add to that, a potential approach would be the polluter pays principle, whereby the tobacco industry is required to reimburse Health Canada for the cost of the tobacco strategy. Right now, Health Canada's $38-million budget works out to about $1.04 per capita. In the United States, it's about $3.60, more than three times the amount. Exchange rates vary.
In the United States, the Food and Drug Administration recovers the entire cost of its annual tobacco budget from the tobacco industry, based on market share. That's something we could do in Canada, to have as much impact as possible, to reduce youth use, and to enhance cessation.
1:15 p.m.
Research Director, Physicians for a Smoke-Free Canada
I should add that France has also adopted the polluter pays principle. They have a special tax on tobacco suppliers, and all of the money goes to fund tobacco control.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
That completes our seven-minute round. We'll go to five-minute rounds.
We'll start with Mr. Webber.
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB
Thank you all for being here today.
I have a silly question to start with. I'm not a smoker. I don't hang out with people who smoke. What is the difference between an e-cigarette and vaping?
Maybe Lesley could answer.
1:15 p.m.
Senior Manager, Health Policy, Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada
It's the same thing. Electronic cigarette, e-cigarette, vaping: it's all the same terminology.