Health Committee on Feb. 12th, 2018

[Prof. Sinclair Davidson]

Thank you.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I have a question for Freeze the Industry. You say that you want to help people quit smoking. Obviously if we're going to get to 5% by 2035, a lot of people are going to have to quit.

Would it be helpful if they knew what alternatives were available to them, Mr. Johnson?

[Akehil Johnson]

Yes, I think it would be helpful to know what safer alternatives are out there to use. Obviously, all people can't quit cold turkey.

But getting to less than 5% by '35 is not just about getting people to quit smoking—

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

No, but that was the question. You agree that they should. Yet this bill, Bill S-5, would not allow any products that are safer, that are determined to be safer, that are logically safer, to advertise that fact. Anyone who is wanting to quit can't be told about the alternatives unless Health Canada does so.

[Maxime Le]

I agree with Health Canada that it should be the only regulatory body to determine whether or not it is a safer alternative, and to pass on that messaging through their packaging, or or whatever it deems appropriate.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Health Canada does not send messages to people on the street. People on the street aren't reading those messages, that's for sure.

Some food products can advertise that they have less fat or fewer carbs or whatever, and yet we're talking about a major health issue here. With this bill, a smoker would not be able to look at advertising to do their research to find out what products would help them. They'd have to rely on a physician, who would not be able to do that research either, because Health Canada would be the only one who would have that information.

Do you think that's right?

[Maxime Le]

Our position still stands that we would support Health Canada's distributing that sort of messaging and making sure that it gets across clearly. It's not the responsibility of tobacco companies or e-cigarette companies or whatever to advertise that to their consumers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Thanks very much. The time is up.

Mr. Davies, you have seven minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Luongo, you referred to the fact that you'd like the industry to move to IQOS, the electronic penlike device, and you made some claims about its being safer. I'm reading a New York Times article from January 25, 2018 that says:

A federal advisory committee on Thursday recommended that the Food and Drug Administration reject a bid by Philip Morris International to market a smokeless tobacco stick in the United States as safer than traditional cigarettes.

Philip Morris is your parent company, is it?

[Peter Luongo]

Yes, that's correct.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

It goes on:

In an eight-to-one vote, the advisory panel rejected the company’s contention that “scientific studies have shown that switching completely from cigarettes to the IQOS system can reduce the risks of tobacco-related diseases.”

The panel also expressed doubt that smokers would completely switch to use of the stick, saying many might become long-term dual users of the device and traditional cigarettes.

The committee did agree that the heated product would limit exposure to harmful chemicals in conventional cigarettes.

I put it to you, sir, that the FDA panel has, so far at least, rejected your claim before this committee that the IQOS system has reduced the risks of tobacco-related diseases. Isn't that what they found?

[Peter Luongo]

Well, I think you need to differentiate between two things. Number one is whether they felt there was enough evidence to make certain recommendations on specific language, what that underlying evidence showed, and what the discussion of that committee showed. I think there was a lot of actual positive discussion, if you watched the two days' worth of committee hearings.

Clearly, this is an advisory panel. The FDA is now going to make its determination. The FDA has actually not made a determination on the application yet. We were actually very encouraged by all of the feedback that came from the committee in total.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Okay.

To the Canadian Convenience Stores Association, are tobacco companies members of your association?

[Satinder Chera]

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, they are in fact non-voting members of our association.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

How much funding does the tobacco industry give to your organization and to your regional affiliates, such as the Ontario and Atlantic convenience stores associations?

[Satinder Chera]

We don't divulge our financial information.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

You don't divulge how much money the tobacco companies provide, so I don't know how much money you're receiving from the tobacco industry.

[Satinder Chera]

We don't divulge any financial information that our members provide us.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Why not, sir?

[Satinder Chera]

It's a long-standing policy that we've had with our members. It's not just with regard to tobacco, but also confectionary, and beverages. I might note that it's virtually unheard of for associations to provide that type of information.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Okay.

To go back to you, Mr. Luongo, we heard some evidence about contraband. My understanding is that the three major tobacco companies in Canada, including your company, were convicted of being engaged in illegal contraband in 2008. You were required to pay fines and civil payments totalling $1.7 billion.

What was the behaviour or action that was undertaken by the tobacco companies that led to those convictions?

[Peter Luongo]

To start, just to be clear, I was not at RBH at the time. The reality at the time was that even though it was in 2008, you're talking about behaviour that had taken place many years before.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

My question, sir, is what was the behaviour that led to the conviction?

[Peter Luongo]

My understanding is that—and you can look to the specific settlement that was reached—there was product coming out of Canada going into the U.S. and back into Canada.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

The tobacco industry comes to this committee and says, don't bring in plain packaging, don't increase health warnings, because you're going to have an increase in contraband, yet the whole time the tobacco industry was actually conspiring with the contraband industry to actually participate in the sale and promotion of contraband material.