Evidence of meeting #93 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nicotine.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you.
Dr. Strang, you had said that there were substantive respiratory harms that come from vaping, and I know that in Europe, they've banned diacetyl.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
We don't have him yet? Oh, darn.
I'll go with a different question, then, and I'll ask this one to Ms. Doucas and Mr. Cran.
Should the vaped nicotine products be covered under the vaping part of the regulation or the tobacco part of the regulation?
4:45 p.m.
Co-Director and Spokesperson, Coalition québécoise pour le contrôle du tabac
I think that as a general principle, people don't walk around wondering how something is regulated. They want to know that it's regulated and that there are provisions, but they don't really care so much about how it's really done.
I think that it certainly does make sense that it would fall under the Tobacco Act. There's such a close association with the products. We're not talking about a gateway, perhaps, but we're certainly talking about addiction to nicotine, and that is the basis of the tobacco epidemic. In our minds, it would make sense that they be done within the same act.
That said, it doesn't mean that all the provisions need to apply equally to all products.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I was going to address this to both Dr. Selby and Dr. Strang. I guess we don't have Dr. Strang yet.
Dr. Selby, there was a question whether a product with decreased harm should be advertised. There was a reference made to heated tobacco. Are you aware of any peer-reviewed scientific evidence that the heated tobacco product is less harmful than regular tobacco?
4:45 p.m.
Professor, University of Toronto, Director of Medical Education, Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, As an Individual
No. We have to be careful when we make claims of reduced harm. We don't actually have that evidence. We have evidence of reduced exposure, which is not necessarily the same thing as reduced harm. Anybody making a claim could make the claim with a clear conscience that there is reduced exposure, but not harm, and I'm not aware of any data that has conclusively shown that heat-not-burn gives a much lower reduction in exposure. I'm not aware of any published results that show that to be the case. Definitely not enough time has passed to show that they're reduced harm products, and then there's questionable data about whether they actually provide reduced exposure.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
This next issue has come up before, and I've talked to several different witnesses about it.
Mr. Cran, you were talking about counterfeit tobacco and contraband tobacco and its effects on Australia. I've been looking for any evidence of the claim that it actually does increase. The only evidence I've been able to find is that put forward by studies commissioned by the tobacco industry or their lobby groups. I have never found a peer-reviewed scientific study that said that contraband tobacco increased. Where do you think this information that contraband tobacco increases with plain packaging is coming from?
4:50 p.m.
President, Consumers' Association of Canada
I'll have to have a look at that. I'd be happy to send you what I've got. I have nothing in mind straight off.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Yes, I would be interested to see, because I've actually looked for it myself. I have nothing invested in this either way. If you told me plain packaging would not work in decreasing smoking and that it increased contraband, I'd be the first to ask why we would do this.
The review by the department of public health in Australia, which used a lot of scientific literature, said that although a number of variables decreased smoking rates, a significant portion of that could be attributed to plain packaging. Are you aware of that research?
4:50 p.m.
President, Consumers' Association of Canada
I glanced at it. I looked at it the same as you probably did. I didn't read it word for word. I went through it. It was a pretty large document. I'd be happy to send you what we have over the next days if I get your email address. I'll undertake to do that for you.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
With regard to marketing—and this isn't a scientific observation, but it's a question that needs asking—not just tobacco companies, but every company that makes a product spends large amounts of money on advertising and on packaging. Every company that makes packaging uses their packaging as a form of advertising.
Why would the tobacco companies be investing in all these different kinds of packaging if they did not have any effect on the consumption of their products?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
I'm asking you this question, yes.
4:50 p.m.
President, Consumers' Association of Canada
Well, I'm not a marketing expert, but common sense would tell you to make your packaging unique and attractive. Otherwise, you'd just be wasting your money. In fact, I was just reading some articles a couple of weeks ago going back to the days of the Romans, who used to do the same type of thing.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
I know, yes, but is that not in conflict with the principle of saying that this is insulting to consumers because they can't decide for themselves? Again, why would tobacco companies be spending all this money on advertising if it didn't make people more likely to smoke their product?
4:50 p.m.
President, Consumers' Association of Canada
I don't think I made that argument. If you're a marketer, that's exactly what you would do to make it attractive. That goes with what we're saying. We're dealing with consumer choice.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
I understand. It's just that some of the things you were saying earlier seemed to indicate that this wouldn't have an effect on what the consumer would do.
4:50 p.m.
President, Consumers' Association of Canada
Wouldn't? I think it probably would. It's the same as a motor car—Ford, GM, or whatever—or anything else that has a brand name—
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Do you still contend that a plain package won't make it less likely that someone is going to buy a product?
4:50 p.m.
President, Consumers' Association of Canada
I haven't seen any evidence to that effect myself, but....
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
There's a great deal of evidence to that effect, sir.
I think my time is up.
4:50 p.m.
President, Consumers' Association of Canada
I'm just saying that I haven't seen it, so that's my view of it.
