Health Committee on April 16th, 2018

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Marie-Hélène Sauvé]

Good afternoon to all members of the committee.

Since the chair and vice-chairs of the committee are not in attendance, I will inform members that I have received an email that Mr. Casey is designating Ms. Sidhu as his replacement, as acting chair for the committee.

I would simply ask for the consent of the committee to proceed in this manner.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Clerk]

Thank you.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Welcome to the 99th meeting of the Standing Committee on Health. We have a very busy agenda.

Before we get to that, I understand that Mr. Oliver has a motion.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

When we were doing the study on national pharmacare, one of the groups that came and presented was CORD. It's an organization that deals with Canadians who are suffering from rare disorders, rare diseases. They talked about some of the difficulties they had in getting treatment or in gaining access to new pharmaceuticals for rare diseases. That was when we were doing the national pharmacare study. We've heard other testimony at the committee dealing with unique diseases and with the problems Canadians have, particularly when they're in a small subset with a disease or disorder.

I think, having talked it through, there's an interest in looking at a study. The motion is as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee undertake a study on the barriers to access to treatment and drugs for Canadians affected by rare diseases and disorders in order to develop recommendations on actions that the federal government can take, in partnership with the provinces and territories, to remove these barriers; that the Committee report its findings and recommendations to the House no later than December 31, 2018; and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the Committee request that the Government table a comprehensive response to the report.

I'd like to move the adoption of this motion.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Is there any debate or amendment?

Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I talked to Mr. Oliver last week and I talked to Mr. Oliver before the meeting. I kindly asked him to reconsider moving his motion today. Actually, I said he was welcome to move his motion today and discuss it if he liked, but to hold off until Wednesday to have the vote on it and potentially look at friendly amendments, etc.

Given the fact that I would say at least half the committee is not here today, the fact that committee business was not on the schedule today, and the fact that our chair isn't here today, our vice-chair isn't here today, and our second vice-chair isn't here today, I think we should seriously consider, as a committee, holding off talking about committee business. It is well within Mr. Oliver's right to discuss his motion or anybody else's motion as long as they want to put it on the record and discuss it, but the fact of the matter is that I did not see it on the schedule for today—discussion or any committee business. I'm looking at the agenda, and unless I'm starting to develop cataracts, I don't see committee business on here.

Based on the fact that half the committee is missing here today and that there may be further discussions about Mr. Oliver's particular motion, I think with all due respect we should park it for today. At the beginning of our meeting on Wednesday we can discuss his motion. I promise it will take fewer than five minutes to discuss.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Committee business is on the notice. I think everybody got that. Committee business is on the agenda today.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Is it on this agenda that I'm looking at right here?

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

That is the agenda for the bill only.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Fair enough. But regardless of whether or not it's on the agenda, due to the fact that we're missing so many people on the committee today, I think it would be respectful to hold off and discuss it on Wednesday.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Is there any further debate on Mr. Oliver's motion that's on the table?

Yes, Mr. Oliver.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I just want to thank Mr. Lobb for his comments. Our side is here. Are we allowed to talk about who's here and who's not here in committee? I know you can't do that in the House.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Yes. Mr. Oliver's motion is on the table, and the Liberals are here.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I think there are two members missing from the Conservative side. Otherwise, everybody is in attendance.

Mr. Lobb had an alternative motion dealing with the SAP program. I'm wondering if you want right now to consider a friendly amendment to bring a focus to the SAP program in this motion so that we can get this done and to bed today when we have it on the agenda. Half the committee is not missing. We are all here.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Is there any debate on the motion?

Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

As I said, the permanent representative for the NDP is not here today, and that may or may not matter. It may or may not. The representative here today might be quite prepared to discuss what Mr. Davies wanted to talk about, but she may not. I can't speak for her.

Ms. Gladu is the vice-chair of this committee. She is the long-serving member of this committee as far as our side goes, and Mr. Webber is also not here today. There are other things we have to discuss today as well.

Mr. Oliver and I have talked about this. It was his indication that he did not want to make this political. He did not want to make this thing partisan, and I took him at his word on that. If he checks the interviews I did subsequent to their voting my motion down, he'll see that I said that I believe the Liberal Party have now turned around the tin ear they had a couple of weeks ago and are now prepared to deal with these issues in a serious manner. I believe that is a nice peace offering to Mr. Oliver and other members of the Liberal Party. What I am saying to him is that we're prepared to discuss the motion. We're prepared to possibly amend the motion, but we're not prepared to do it today. We would just ask, as a courtesy, that he wait until Wednesday and then we'll be able to do it. I don't think that's that big a request. Given the fact that this motion will not be discussed, will not be reviewed until the fall, there's no pressing reason for it to be discussed by the middle of April or for trying to pretend that it's critical that it be dealt with today when it can be dealt with on Wednesday and still fit within the calendar. I know there are other motions they may want to discuss today, and that's fine. That will make no difference at all as to where this motion gets placed in precedence or priority in the committee calendar. If we plan on doing a certain number of meetings in the fall, that's fine and that's great, but today, in the middle of an ice storm, it certainly does not make a difference.

The fact that two of my colleagues aren't here today.... Mr. Webber is here now, which is great, but Ms. Gladu and I have not finished our discussions on the motion. We have not finished our discussions on the amendment. It was just the other day that I spoke with Mr. Oliver about his motion and the amendments. I'm just asking him to wait two days so that we can make sure we're satisfied with his motion.

By the way, I brought forward two motions on this topic prior to the Liberals bringing their motion forward. I think it is quite magnanimous on our part that we're willing to forgo both of our motions and potentially support his motion. If we wanted to really play politics, we could have said to him that he could have amended my motion and supported our motion, and potentially we're not there yet.

I will make a note that it is almost 3:50 and I am prepared to discuss this until 5:30. If the committee wants to extend the meeting until 10:30, I'm prepared to discuss this, because I believe that it's important for my side that we have it right. I've had discussions with certain people, who are not members of Parliament but who are stakeholders and parents and family members, about potential amendments to motions, and those discussions have not been finalized yet. Until that time, I think it's important.

I would note that there are Liberal MPs who have received significant numbers of emails from parents and family members about the fact that they voted down the motion a couple of weeks ago. All I'm asking for them to do today is to wait two more days so that we have this correct and they don't receive another hundred or two hundred emails or phone calls to their constituency offices.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Mr. Oliver.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I am a bit perplexed by all of the comments over there. I do think this is an important topic. We all have people in our ridings who suffer from rare diseases and disorders. We are all dealing with families. It's an important study. It's one that I've been conscious of. I think we've been aware of it for almost two years now, ever since CORD came and spoke at the national pharmacare presentation. That was our first introduction to the difficulties and challenges that people in their groupings are having in getting access to drugs and treatment.

The “tin ear” comments and the letters that have been organized I think are not helpful comments as we look for a collaborative all-party approach to this. I have been in dialogue with the president of CORD to make sure this motion was okay with them, but I'm also willing to let Mr. Lobb.... I did tell him in our phone call that this was coming today. It's on the committee business. All the members are present except for one. If he's not prepared for the motion yet and wants to take some more time, then I think, if I have the commitment of the chair that this will be the first item on Wednesday—I'm hearing a five-minute discussion and then we move forward on the motion—in the interest of having the parties in agreement with the motion, I'll defer this until Wednesday to allow that additional time for him to do what he needs to do to think about an amendment to the motion.

I know that his interest was around SAP, around that program. I've told him that I'd be quite willing to look at adding a friendly amendment to this that would incorporate SAP as a special mention that needs to be addressed. I think we can get there quite easily, but I guess he's not prepared to do it today so I will wait until Wednesday.

Do I table the motion? How do I do that?

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

The motion has already been moved.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

The motion has been moved already so I...?

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Sonia Sidhu]

Is there any further debate?

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I appreciate Mr. Oliver's waiting until Wednesday. Whether or not you need a motion to now move on, that's up to the chair, but if that's what she requires, I can move that.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I'll move that motion.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

If we can just move on to the next topic, I'll promise Mr. Oliver that at the next meeting it will be five minutes or less and we'll get on and have a great study, and that'll be the way it is.

I'll move that we postpone the debate until Wednesday.