Health Committee on May 5th, 2020

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Thank you.

I want to start by thanking everybody for being here.

Ms. Black, your presentation suggested that public long-term care facilities are having a much better result in combatting COVID-19 compared with other facilities. However, I'm not sure that's correct. I thought we would see similar infection rates in both private and public long-term care facilities.

Interestingly enough, just down the road from me is a private senior care facility—I'm in B.C.—that felt compelled to ban those health care workers being sent to their location, in part because the local health authority had only assigned two face masks and two sets of gloves for the month for those care workers. Clearly, this sort of PPE rationing is dangerous not only for patients but also for care workers.

You seem to be suggesting that making all long-term care public is the main solution to the problems we're facing, as opposed to the lack of PPE being available. As well as ensuring that adequate PPE supply is available, would new national care standards that applied to both private and public facilities not go a long way to solving a lot of the challenges facing long-term care across Canada, yes or no?

[Lou Black]

Having an adequate supply of PPE would absolutely be helpful. The reason there is potential for cross-contamination, and the reason.... One of the key steps that all provinces are considering implementing or are starting to implement at this point is having single-site orders. That's about making sure that workers don't have to work in more than one facility.

In B.C.—

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Right. That can also be done in private. I think that's a wonderful suggestion. Obviously it's working here in B.C. Those standards obviously could apply to both private and public. That's awesome. I appreciate that answer.

Because my time is really limited, I'd like to go to Mr. Lemaire.

First of all, I'm so glad to hear that the government has finally announced support for farmers. As a farmer myself, it has been utterly heartbreaking to watch the despair my farm friends have been experiencing for the last few months as they face the impending bankruptcy. It's been hard. I do pray this will not turn out to be too little too late for this industry.

Due to COVID-19, the government has shut down business across the country. The consequence of this forced shutdown is the need for the government to replace lost incomes. These programs are designed to encourage people to stay home, which, during a pandemic, is a really good thing.

With the current situation and disincentive to work, how should the government adapt these programs, as we get this country back up and running, to encourage workers to go back to work, especially in the farming industry?

[Ron Lemaire]

That's a great question, and this is not only for the farming industry but right across the supply chain.

We can look at farms and how the farmers operate. In B.C., as an example, right now there is a large group of hospitality opportunities because the hospitality sector and its employee base are leveraging CERB. They traditionally could be an option to move into the farming community to help with production and/or picking and so on. It is a disincentive relative to staying home, getting the money and looking at the future down the road.

As I mentioned on the mental health component, our bigger challenge is going to be taking out the actual cash incentive. The combination of a cash incentive and creating a safe environment is fundamental.

There is also the combination of protocols and rules that are in place in the transitioning and reopening of the economy at provincial and federal levels. How do we ensure that we have the appropriate protocols and personal protective equipment so that workers feel comfortable about applying for jobs and going back to work?

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Absolutely. I appreciate that.

When I look at, for instance, the CERB program, it is offering $2,000 if you're not working during COVID-19. However, if your employer calls you into work and you get the $1,000, suddenly you will not necessarily want to go back in because you're going to lose your CERB.

Do you think this is going to cause problems for an employer's ability to find willing workers when the time comes? I'm specifically thinking of fruit harvests, which are going to be coming up soon. We have student benefits that are going to last well into August.

[Ron Lemaire]

For the student benefit we'll have to wait and see, but it has the potential to cause challenges for the workforce that would potentially be coming in to do seasonal work. Time will tell.

The question is going to arise, does government need to put in some type of added wage incentive that industry can use to leverage? It's similar to what we heard on the trucking side. How do you support [Inaudible—Editor] and tax reduction? Likewise on the employer side, are there other incentives that the employer can use to leverage and provide more of a cash incentive for these people to come off of social programs?

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Now, you've mentioned—

[The Chair, Liberal, Marcus Powlowski]

Thank you, Ms. Jansen.

We will now go to Mr. Kelloway.

Mr. Kelloway, you have five minutes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks so much, Mr. Chair.

Hello to my colleagues out there and to the witnesses. It's a real privilege to talk to you today.

My questions are going to be focused on our witnesses from CUPE.

My riding of Cape Breton—Canso is home to many local CUPE groups, so I know how hard you are working for Canadians at this time. I just want to give you, from me and my family, a heartfelt thank you for all that you're doing.

Many workplaces have been adapted to the new normal, where possible, to protect their employees. You've talked a bit about that. What are you hearing from your members when it comes to measures being taken to adapt to this new normal, specifically in the context of front-line care and primary health care?

[Amanda Vyce]

With respect to some of the key changes we're seeing in provinces that have instituted single work site orders, there is a concern among members because, as we mentioned earlier, our members work multiple jobs at multiple sites. We need an assurance for our members that when they are restricted to employment at a single work site they will receive an equivalent number of hours so that they don't lose pay.

Another major concern of our members is that they're absolutely terrified of taking the virus home to their family members. Prior to the single work site orders being instituted—and not all provinces have them in place—workers are very fearful of contracting the virus and not knowing it, since many individuals who have the virus are asymptomatic and potentially transmitting it to residents in the places where they work.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Does your counterpart have anything to add to that?

[Lou Black]

I think the other pieces in terms of the new normal are maybe not quite as directly related to their work, but there are the lineups in grocery stores and the transportation in trying to get to and from work. There's also the issue of laundry. Previously, they could get scrubs at hospitals. Now they're not able to.

I think there needs to be something—some allowance, some provision—to help with meals and with transportation. We're also seeing public transit cuts here in B.C. simultaneously, and they haven't avoided all health care institutions. I think there needs to be some kind of allowance and some provision to help members with maintaining some balance of life outside of work as well.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That's interesting.

I want to touch upon a particular theme in this discussion and in the first two rounds of questioning around wages and providing better wages for those who are working in long-term health care.

I have some experience in working in long-term health care, having been in charge of training and development for the Nova Scotia Community College. A lot of CCAs, PCWs and LPNs went through many of our programs.

In terms of the top-up that was announced a couple of weeks ago, with the provinces and the federal government working together on that, if you had five minutes to talk to both provincial and federal representation, what recommendations would you give the governments in terms of how to implement the wage top-up?

[Lou Black]

I'm sorry, but is that directed at me or Amanda?

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Yes, I'm still staying with CUPE. I'm just focused on you two, the middle square and the far left square on Hollywood Squares.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Lou Black]

Amanda, I'll let you go ahead.

[Amanda Vyce]

Thank you.

The wage top-up certainly has been welcomed by many of our members. One thing that they of course would like to see is that the wage top-up is not only a temporary measure, but a measure that remains in place as things start to settle down and life returns to a new normal.

One thing that we were seeing is that the wage top-up in some provinces has been applied equally across the board for all job classifications receiving the wage top-up; however, because care aides in particular and workers in the long-term care sector are comparatively so much lower paid than workers in other sectors, the top-up still doesn't really make up for the inequity in terms of the wages they had been receiving.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marcus Powlowski]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marcus Powlowski]

We go now to Mr. Doherty.

Mr. Doherty, please go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Wilson, we have a container shortage, especially in the 20-foot equivalents. Due to the clawback of Asian exports. there's a drawback in the containers coming into Canada and there are many missed sailings.

How do we manage this situation so that when the economy trickles back we have containers for exports and the ship lines have protocols in place to ensure avoiding a COVID outbreak or that at least we can contain it?

[Mathew Wilson]

I think there are two issues: the supply of the equipment and making sure that there are safe protocols in place on the equipment itself.

I would look at this similarly to the way we looked at the CN rail strike. It seems like forever ago now, but it was just a couple of months ago. Exactly the same problem happened: you couldn't get the equipment to where the goods were needed to be moved to and from.

It takes a long time to undo that. In fact, I think in the case of the CN rail strike, it was going to take in the neighbourhood of four to six weeks—

[The Chair, Liberal, Marcus Powlowski]

Pardon me, Mr. Wilson. Your sound quality is not good. Could you try to speak carefully into your mike?

[Mathew Wilson]

Sure. Is this better?