Evidence of meeting #29 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Kevin Brosseau  Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport
Lawrence Hanson  Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Department of Transport
Wendy Nixon  Director General, Aviation Security, Department of Transport
Nicholas Robinson  Director General, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport
Ferio Pugliese  Senior Vice-President, Air Canada Express and Government Relations, Air Canada
Jim Chung  Chief Medical Officer, Air Canada
Howard Liebman  Senior Director, Government and Community Affairs, Air Transat
Jared Mikoch-Gerke  Manager, Aviation Security, WestJet Airlines Ltd.
Dave Bourdages  Vice-President, In-Flight Service and Customer Experience, Air Transat

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Okay.

12:35 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Kevin Brosseau

I will note, Mr. Chair, just for additional context, that masks are requested to be worn in the measures we took where physical distancing is simply not possible or not practical. In the passenger rail sector—and really, that's VIA, for all intents and purposes—the volumes have been such that physical distancing has been largely possible.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Fair enough.

Turning to physical distancing, according to a June 16, 2020, article on CTV News, a passenger on a recent Flair Airlines flight from Calgary to Vancouver photographed a completely packed aircraft with nearly all of the middle seats in the three-seat rows in the image occupied. They shared that picture. The CEO of Flair Airlines said that the passengers on the aircraft chose not to pay a premium to leave the seat next to them unoccupied.

Transport Canada then issued a statement that said it “encourages air operators to keep an additional space between passengers when seats are available and when safe to do so.” You recommended that “air operators should develop guidance for spacing passengers aboard aircraft”. Why aren't airlines required to leave space between passengers aboard aircraft in order to maintain physical distancing? Why are you allowing airlines to put passengers within the six-foot barrier that public health officers are telling us must be maintained to stay safe?

12:35 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Kevin Brosseau

I'll start an answer and then turn it over to one of my colleagues, who have been working very closely with this sector on exactly these types of issues.

I'll say that it's clearly recognized that on an airplane physical distancing is a challenge. Consequently, that's why we put measures in place, for instance, such as the questions—the symptomatic screening questions and the observations—as well as the mandatory use of face coverings or face masks on the airplane where that physical distancing isn't possible. We've approached this and provided a layering process and system whereby measures actually build on each other, and there's not one individual measure that stands on its own, but a number of measures that have to work in concert to be able to ensure or minimize the risk of transmission of the virus during flight.

We're currently working with the aviation sector in developing a guidance document that is all-encompassing and that will use, for instance, the International Civil Aviation Organization as a baseline standard for best practices in the aviation sector.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Brosseau, Dr. Tam has stated that masks are no substitute.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Pardon me. I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, I didn't hear you.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

No worries. That ends round one. We'll start round two at this point with Dr. Kitchen.

Dr. Kitchen, please go ahead. You have five minutes.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, everybody, for being here today. It's greatly appreciated.

Mr. Brosseau, thank you very much for your presentation. It has brought some questions to my mind.

You talked about health checks and about observing visible signs of illness. What mandatory steps are you taking at Transport Canada to ensure that people who are taking these health checks are qualified and that the information collected is [Technical difficulty—Editor] and kept private?

12:35 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Kevin Brosseau

I will start off the answer, and then I'll turn it over to my colleague Ms. Nixon.

It's very important that the health checks be overseen by Transport Canada's oversight process. On the privacy of individual passengers, it's crucial that we maintain not only the safety of the entire flying public, but that the privacy of individual passengers is also maintained.

Let me turn it over to my colleague Ms. Nixon, who will be able to provide additional granularity to that question.

12:35 p.m.

Director General, Aviation Security, Department of Transport

Wendy Nixon

To add to Kevin's response, the set of questions that airlines are asked to rely on is an awareness or communication factor with passengers to promote the fact that they should be looking for COVID symptoms, especially in the early days of travel, to make them understand the three main signs of COVID. This was based on advice from Public Health Agency colleagues as well as our civil aviation medicine group. Those signs were promoted.

We do oversight of those international carriers as well as domestic carriers to ensure that they are keeping that information private. As we move forward with additional measures, including temperature checks, we are verifying that privacy analysis is done and in place as well as gender-based analysis to ensure that any of the measures we take are—

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. That leads me to my next question.

The minister stated last week that, with respect to the announcement that passengers' temperatures need to be checked for all flights, CATSA, the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority, will be purchasing the temperature scanners and temperature guns. Was this decision made based upon advice from Dr. Tam and PHAC?

12:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Kevin Brosseau

This advice was taken in concert with our engagement with the International Civil Aviation Organization and a number of agencies around the world, including what we had seen from our advice here internally to civil aviation medicine. We work closely with the Public Health Agency of Canada as well.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

What was the total cost of that purchase?

12:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Kevin Brosseau

Mr. Chair, the temperature thermal screeners, and I'll turn to my colleagues, I don't believe have been purchased yet. In fact, the purchase price will depend on the device being purchased, but they have not been purchased yet, to my knowledge.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

If they haven't been purchased, when I flew from China to Ottawa two or three weeks ago, was that device being used by the airline?

12:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Kevin Brosseau

I don't know for certain, Mr. Chair, but it very well could have been used by the airline at that time.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Now that we're talking about thermal scanners, can you tell me the science that suggests the scanner has a high efficiency rate? Canada's chief public health officer, Dr. Tam, stated a month ago that doing temperature checks on travellers is not effective at all, yet the Department of Transport has now announced that you are using those temperature checks. What evidence can you tell me that shows it is effective?

12:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Kevin Brosseau

I'll say that we believe that temperature screening is one of myriad different measures that can be used and implemented in the aviation sector to ensure we're doing all we can to prevent—

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

But it does have multiple false positives and false negatives. If the machine isn't held properly, if it's too close, if it's too far away, if it hasn't been screened, if it hasn't been cleaned, if someone comes in who has been sweating or someone comes in after sitting in an air-conditioned vehicle, we get multiple false positives and false negatives.

Where is the evidence and can you provide that for us?

12:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Safety and Security, Department of Transport

Kevin Brosseau

Mr. Chair, I believe it was Mr. Doherty who asked for that information previously, and we undertook to provide that. I'm happy to do that.

Again, I must stress that we see the temperature screen and the proper standard operating procedures for its use as being one measure among many in a multi-layered approach in the aviation sector to prevent ill people from getting on an aircraft or being in an airport.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you, Dr. Kitchen.

We go now to Dr. Jaczek.

Dr. Jaczek, please go ahead for five minutes.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON

Thank you very much to our witnesses from Transport Canada. Certainly, you've outlined clearly the chronology of the measures that you've been taking over time and projecting what you're going to be doing. Obviously, as the situation over COVID-19 has evolved, you've been monitoring very closely and following along, considering what is best in terms of safety.

My first question is for Mr. Brosseau.

In response to Mr. Thériault, you were talking about the assistance that Transport Canada has given the airline industry, but he implied that you've specifically helped out air carriers.

Could you go through exactly what measures you've taken from a financial perspective to keep the airline industry alive?

12:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Department of Transport

Lawrence Hanson

I'll take that question, Chair.

To be clear, Transport Canada itself has not provided any formal financial assistance to Canadian air carriers. The assistance that has come has been within the ambit of larger sector-wide, economy-wide assistance that's been developed, including airlines' access to the emergency wage subsidy, their ability to seek liquidity assistance from the BCAP as well as the large employers emergency financing facility. Transport Canada itself has not provided any direct financial assistance to airlines during the crisis.