Health Committee on June 22nd, 2020

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you for clarifying that.

I'd like to turn to the health checks and the temperature screening measures that have been undertaken. First of all, what are the results of those health checks? How many passengers have been prohibited from boarding an airplane? I presume that Transport Canada is keeping an eye on the results of those health checks. Let's just concentrate on those for now.

Perhaps it's Ms. Nixon who might be able to respond.

[Wendy Nixon]

Yes.

In fact there's no reporting requirement built into the interim order with respect to the health checks. We have asked air carriers for their numbers, the numbers of people who were turned away based on the questions alone. In fact, some people, a handful of people, were turned away from flights based on the answers they provided. Some of this was because of communication and people not understanding the requirements for transiting or people who were subject to, for example, provincial health orders who were trying to fly home. The numbers have been very small from what we hear from the carriers.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Are you aware of whether the carriers are providing those particular clients any public health recommendations, such as whom to report to or potentially whom to get tested by? Is there any follow-through with these individuals?

[Wendy Nixon]

We have provided air operators a significant amount of guidance material, including contact information for provincial health authorities and direction on what to give passengers when they arrive and answer those questions in a way that might indicate they have COVID symptoms or if symptoms are visually observed or if there are other signs to indicate denial of boarding. The airlines are given information on how to treat that passenger.

Transportation from the airport is one of the examples included in our guidance material to air operators.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you.

Perhaps I could follow up on the direction Mr. Davies was going in with regard to physical distancing. In theory, it would be quite possible, in fact, to distance passengers six feet apart on flights, but clearly there's an economic interest at stake here too.

Mr. Brosseau, could you explain to us the reasoning, with consultation presumably with PHAC, behind how you are not at this point in any way enforcing a physical distance between passengers during flights?

[Kevin Brosseau]

I would say a few things. One, as I mentioned before, there's the work we've done in trying to create a multi-layered system. Two, there's what we've relied on in terms of advice from other aviation authorities as well. Third, our advice and direction and guidance will continue and is continuing to evolve. I can't foreclose, as volumes go up and people start flying again, that this may not be a measure that we take. Right now we believe guidance works very well for the most part, in terms of the broad array of measures we've taken. We'll continue to assess that as we need to.

Again, I think on some aircraft, for instance, the planes that travel to our remote and indigenous communities, it's simply not possible to have physical distancing processes or standards in place.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Dr. Jaczek.

Ms. Jansen, please go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Thank you.

My questions are for you, Mr. Brosseau. If you don't mind, I would like to begin by sharing excerpts from an email I received from a constituent who works at Vancouver airport. I received this email back on January 29. Due to the fact that this particular constituent was concerned that sharing this information with me could put their job at risk, they asked me to keep them anonymous.

Remember that this is from January 29:

MP Jansen, I'm hoping you can urge the government to have a more serious approach by raising the threat level assessment of coronavirus. I'm a screening officer at YVR. Most of the employees in YVR strongly feel we are not prepared to fight or prevent the spread of the virus. Since Health Canada determines the threat is low, there are no face masks provided to the employees. The official language is, “not recommended but respected”, towards staff's personal choice to wear the mask. We are only told to wash our hands more than 20 seconds but a lot of passengers and some employees don't wash their hands or the soap runs out during peak hours in some of the popular washrooms. Health Canada ensures the public that a healthy person will be safe from the virus by washing their hands and staying at least two metres away from others.

Currently that's impossible. Our searches do not allow officers to keep two metres distance when conducting searches nor do we have space at checkpoints. I know for a fact that a lot of movement flow from YVR staff and inbound and outbound travellers are mixed together in certain areas. While China has gone so far to lock down cities, and other countries like Britain - they've stopped flights to and from Beijing, it worries me and other YVR staff to see that the Canadian government is taking such an optimistic approach for something so contagious and dangerous. We're concerned and even if we want to help ourselves by wearing our own masks, they're sold out and I've even gotten teased on my own choice of using my own mask by upper management.

That email was sent to me on January 29. We brought these concerns to the health committee immediately, and yet there were extreme delays before any of these concerns were properly addressed.

Mr. Brosseau, why was everyone so scared to take extra precautions? What could possibly have been the harm?

[Kevin Brosseau]

That's a powerful email. I had similar discussions with my family at the end of January.

We worked very closely with Labour Canada, Health Canada and labour unions to assess, through all those lenses that you've identified, the situation for key transportation workers in Canada. In fact, we've been putting in a number of measures since the end of January, recognizing the evolving nature of the advice as well as the evolving nature of the disease in this country.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

With due respect, I think we need to face the fact that these delays in decisions, allowing people to wear masks or even recommending it, closing the borders, seriously impacted the health of Canadians and the spread of this coronavirus. Had we listened to the concerns regular Canadians like my constituents were raising right at the beginning, we could have fared much better.

Was anyone on your team, you or someone on your team, being pressured to keep employees from using PPE because perhaps supplies were short and our national stockpile was non-existent?

[Kevin Brosseau]

There was never a situation where any of us felt, or I felt.... I never felt pressured. It was about trying to provide the best advice through task hazard analyses, working with the labour program and with provinces and territories, and ensuring that employees were provided the best personal protective equipment that they would have—

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I have a quick question, then. Would you agree that it was reasonable for employees to be able to wear PPE without fear of discipline by their superior officers?

[Kevin Brosseau]

That's a difficult question for me to answer. I really don't know what kinds of disciplinary processes an individual employer would have.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

It's even just the mocking. I mean, the poor guy was mocked for wanting to wear a mask to work.

What I'm hoping for is that these employees will actually get an apology for the kinds of pressure and stress they were put under. It was simply for wanting to wear a mask and gloves, which was for their own personal safety. In a free country, they should have been allowed to do that. Obviously, they should have been encouraged as well. Can they expect an apology?

[Kevin Brosseau]

Mr. Chair, I think that question is best directed to the employer of these employees—

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

You don't have any connection to the fact that they were being told not to wear masks in general? I understand that was part of the message you were giving them.

[Kevin Brosseau]

It was generally the case back in January that the guidance and advice was in fact evolving. We were in fact the first country to mandate face coverings throughout the air journey—

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

What date was that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Jansen.

We go now to Mr. Kelloway, please, for five minutes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and hello to my colleagues.

I want to thank the witnesses. Last week was National Public Service Week, and taking that into account and the work that the witnesses have done, I really want to thank you. My office and I had a lot of questions during this pandemic for Transport Canada, and you've been nothing but helpful during these challenging times.

My question is one that will focus on contrast and compare. I'll utilize myself as an example in that line of questioning.

Before the House adjourned on March 13, I would travel by plane at least once a week from Sydney, Nova Scotia, to Ottawa. Like many things, COVID has made me think twice about the spread of infection, and even when I go to the grocery store I'm thinking about it. When it's safe for us to return to Ottawa—it's more of a futuristic question—how would you compare the risk of travelling by plane to, say, going to the gym or having dinner at a restaurant?

That's open to anyone.

[Kevin Brosseau]

Thank you. I'll start the answer and then I'll turn it over to one of my colleagues who is far more proficient.

I think it's important to note that the aviation industry, as I mentioned before, is heavily regulated in Canada to ensure the strongest safety measures are in place to protect Canadians who are travelling. During the COVID-19 pandemic, we've put additional measures in place, including pre-boarding health checks, as we've discussed, and visual inspections of passengers for symptoms. I'm proud to say that we were the first or one of the first countries to make face coverings mandatory through regulation in the aviation industry. The industry as well has taken significant action at airports and with aircraft.

The measures are aligned with international advice and practices that have been recommended as the pandemic has evolved, including the recommendations by the International Civil Aviation Organization.

Let me turn it over to my colleague, Mr. Robinson, who might be able to provide additional colour for you.

[Nicholas Robinson, Director General, Civil Aviation, Department of Transport]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, we've spoken a lot about the measures that Transport Canada has taken and put in place, but we've also worked directly with industry on the many measures they also have put in place.

We see an industry that has had already significantly high standards with regard to grooming or cleaning and disinfection of the aircraft. They have gone much higher and put in additional measures with regard to grooming and disinfection of aircraft in between segments. They've looked at the filtration on aircraft. Many larger, more advanced commercial aircraft that you see right now have HEPA filters on them. They've used that and improved ways to filter the air in that aircraft more rapidly to further prevent the spread of the virus.

We see airports and air operators putting mechanisms in place to respect that recommendation for physical distancing, to improve their operations and their procedures. So, as you travel to Sydney airport, you see different mechanisms in place. You might see screens in front of your regular check-in operators, more encouragement to check your own bags.

The industry has gone well above any regulations that we have also put in place. We now have an industry that is much healthier than the regular activities you would do day in and day out where those measures aren't mandatory. You don't see mandatory face coverings in a lot of the businesses that you're moving into, but in the air industry you do.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Do you see these measures that you just mentioned as the new normal, given that we may have a second round of the virus in the fall, and beyond that, who knows? Do you see this as a bit of the new normal?

[Nicholas Robinson]

I would say we're constantly monitoring all the measures that we have in place. We've embedded a lot of the regulatory measures, the health check measures, the face covering and temperature screening into what's called an interim order that expires every 14 days. That's why you see our renewing it. It also allows us a rollback mechanism. There is no way we can predict how long these measures will be in place. They'll be in place as long as they are required. We also don't want an industry that has particular measures in place when the risk is no longer there, to put a burden on an industry to not solve a problem.

Right now we have a goal that we want to reduce all risks with regard to the air industry becoming a vector for the virus. That's what we're putting in place. When we evaluate and see that maybe there's a mechanism or measure that we have in place that's no longer required, we'll have a rollback mechanism to remove that.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you.