Evidence of meeting #32 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Arjumand Siddiqi  Associate Professor, Dalla Lana School of Public Health, University of Toronto, As an Individual
Kwame McKenzie  Chief Executive Officer, Wellesley Institute
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Erica Pereira
Kathleen Morris  Vice-President, Research and Analysis, Canadian Institute for Health Information
Scott Jones  Head, Canadian Centre for Cyber Security, Communications Security Establishment
Jeff Latimer  Director General and Strategic Advisor for Health Data, Statistics Canada
Colleen Merchant  Director General, National Cyber Security, National and Cyber Security Branch, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Marc Lachance  Acting Director General, Diversity and Populations, Statistics Canada
Superintendent Mark Flynn  Director General, Financial Crime and Cybercrime, Federal Policing Criminal Operations, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Karen Mihorean  Director General, Social Data Insights, Integration and Innovation, Statistics Canada

1:45 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Mr. Latimer, am I to understand that the responsibility should fall to the Public Health Agency of Canada? Should the agency manage, supervise and control this compilation of extremely essential information?

1:45 p.m.

Director General and Strategic Advisor for Health Data, Statistics Canada

Jeff Latimer

I would not be comfortable. I think it's well above my decision-making authority to decide who in Canada should be collecting this data.

I will say that both organizations have the expertise, and we are working collaboratively to fill in the gaps.

1:45 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

I am talking about the Public Health Agency of Canada. What is the other organization you mention?

1:45 p.m.

Director General and Strategic Advisor for Health Data, Statistics Canada

Jeff Latimer

I was talking about the Public Health Agency of Canada and Statistics Canada, and we are working collaboratively with Health Canada as well. We are working with all three.

1:45 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Latimer.

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

You have about 40 seconds.

1:45 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

I will be quick.

Mr. Jones, two weeks ago, the Standing Committee on Health asked the government to establish a way for security to be built into digital products and services from their design stage.

Does that seem realistic to you?

1:45 p.m.

Head, Canadian Centre for Cyber Security, Communications Security Establishment

Scott Jones

I think it's very important, as I mentioned in my opening statements, to have cybersecurity designed from the start to understand what threats can be faced. Unfortunately, when we look at an application, typically we look at the benefits. We also need to look at how it can be misused from a cybersecurity perspective. I think we've made a lot of strides, certainly in the exposure notification system. Part of the team that's working on this is making sure that it is ready from the start and designed with cybersecurity in mind.

It's important that we continue to reinforce that it's not just the benefits of the technology. We also have to look at how it can be misused.

1:45 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Thank you, Mr. Jones.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you, Mr. Desilets,

We will go to Mr. Davies.

Mr. Davies, please go ahead for five minutes.

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

Ms. Morris, my first question is to you.

Does CIHI currently collect national information regarding the availability of health care system resources such as ventilators, intensive care units and hospital beds?

1:45 p.m.

Vice-President, Research and Analysis, Canadian Institute for Health Information

Kathleen Morris

We do collect that information and we have quite detailed information on the patients who would be using these services. One of the challenges is that it flows a little more slowly because it's based on discharge data, so it's not available as quickly as we might like during a pandemic situation.

One of the things that we've done to address this issue is pull together data very quickly, working with the provinces and territories, to create a dashboard that looks at the supply of ICU beds and ventilators, the number of COVID patients who are using these resources and the number of people with other health concerns who need that type of care. We put that together and update it daily.

1:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you.

Do all provincial and territorial governments now provide CIHI with that information?

1:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Research and Analysis, Canadian Institute for Health Information

Kathleen Morris

Yes. There are a few small gaps, but in general we're getting good data flows from the provinces and territories.

1:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Could you undertake to provide this committee with a list of that information? I'm curious, for instance, to know how many ventilators we have available in Canada, particularly if we face a second wave in the fall. Is that something you could provide to the committee?

1:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Research and Analysis, Canadian Institute for Health Information

Kathleen Morris

I believe that would be possible, and I will take a look at the.... The numbers change daily, but we will endeavour to bring you some of that information after the meeting.

1:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you.

In response to calls for better demographic data to understand health inequities and COVID-19, in May CIHI released an interim race data standard, intended for use by any jurisdictional organization that decides to collect this kind of data. However, as you probably heard in the first panel and after that, many advocates have criticized this approach because it's voluntary. They say the federal government has a leadership role to play to ensure there's consistent pan-Canadian data, regardless of jurisdiction.

Since the current gap in information makes it impossible to target resources and care where they're most needed, should the federal government impose mandatory national standards with respect to the collection and sharing of socio-demographic data related to COVID-19?

1:50 p.m.

Vice-President, Research and Analysis, Canadian Institute for Health Information

Kathleen Morris

We believe that having as much detailed data available as possible is critical to understanding, planning and managing health services. We've worked for quite a long time with affected communities to develop what we call our equity standards. Those talk about income, sex, gender—a number of things—and they include race and indigenous status. They are important to really understand the situation and to plan services.

One thing we've learned through this is that while collecting the data is important, it's also very important that the communities that generate the data or are the subject of the data are comfortable with collaborating in the data collection. In many cases there are racialized groups in particular who believe that data collection has been used for purposes that have created difficulties for them. We believe that attitude is changing and that the benefit of data is clear. Our role is to provide the standards so that it's collected in comparable and clear ways and can be aggregated for good use.

1:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Latimer, you've identified that one of the gaps is a lack of common data standards nationally. Do you also think there should be national mandatory reporting with respect to demographic information, such as race and ethnicity? I would note that we do know, and we heard in the previous panel, that in our census StatsCan does give a sample of 100,000 people who are typically asked those questions. Is it time to make that apply to everybody?

1:50 p.m.

Director General and Strategic Advisor for Health Data, Statistics Canada

Jeff Latimer

I'm going to turn to my colleague Marc Lachance, who has the expertise to answer that question for you.

1:50 p.m.

Marc Lachance Acting Director General, Diversity and Populations, Statistics Canada

Good afternoon.

This is a very good question. Similar to our colleague from CIHI, Statistics Canada produces national standards. As you mentioned, the census is one of the major data collection activities in which we apply those standards. As a national statistical organization, Statistics Canada makes all those standards available. We develop them with communities and with experts. We also test them with the respondents to ensure that they understand those standards. As a result, we have standards that we can make available to other organizations. They're all available publicly. As mentioned, they are all trusted and used.

We are also working closely with our—

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

With respect, Mr. Lachance, the question is whether or not you would make it mandatory for all Canadians to be asked about race and ethnicity instead of only 100,000.

1:55 p.m.

Acting Director General, Diversity and Populations, Statistics Canada

Marc Lachance

I don't think I understand the question about the 100,000.

As you know, in the census we do ask those questions to a certain ratio of the population. There are standards relating to ethnicity and ethnic origins. We also have visible minority questions. Those are the questions that we ask through the census, and also through other surveys.

Statistics Canada doesn't have the mandate to force those standards. We apply those standards to our surveys to ensure that the interoperability among our surveys is as good as the census and other population surveys we are administering, including the health surveys.

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you.

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

That ends round one. We will start round two now. We're going to cut back time on this round as well. The five-minute slots will go to four minutes. The two-and-a-half-minute slots, unfortunately, will have to go to two minutes.

Mr. Webber, please go ahead for four minutes.