Health Committee on April 16th, 2021

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

No, we have not.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Deputy Matthews, Reuters reported that deliveries of Moderna COVID-19 vaccines are on track to meet the number of doses it promised the European Union this month, but that there are no disruptions—that is, there are no disruptions for the European Union—and yet Canada has seen its supply of the vaccine disrupted from the manufacturer. Was any form of remedy negotiated into our contract with Moderna if they missed a quarterly delivery target?

[Bill Matthews, Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

The deliveries by quarter from Moderna, Pfizer and all other vaccine companies are targets. We're working with Moderna to make sure they do their best to meet the Q2 target. We are aware that Canada and some other countries are having a dip in the next delivery—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

They're targets. They're not firm delivery requirements in the contract at the end of the quarter.

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, I'm not going to speak about the confidential nature of the contracts.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Well, you just said they were targets. Is there a difference between target and firm contractual obligations?

[Bill Matthews]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I can't elaborate more on that, at this stage.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Was any form of remedy negotiated into our contract with Moderna?

[Bill Matthews]

Again, Mr. Chair, I will not elaborate on the confidential nature of the contracts, at this stage. We are in discussions with our suppliers about taking some transparency measures related to the contracts, and that work is under way.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

With that, I will put the following motion on notice: that in relation to the committee's study, “Emergency Situation Facing Canadians in Light of the COVID-19 Pandemic”, the committee do summons Patricia Gauthier, Canada country manager for Moderna, to appear and testify by April 30, 2021, for no fewer than two hours.

Thank you, Chair. That concludes my questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Rempel Garner.

Mr. Kelloway, please go ahead for six minutes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

Hello to the ministers and the rest of the witnesses. Thank you for coming today.

Minister Hajdu, as Canadians we're fighting this virus together. I believe COVID-19 is not a political war, but I think we should look to other provinces and territories to learn what has worked and what hasn't worked when it comes to keeping Canadians safe from the virus. Here in the Atlantic, the provinces banded together early on to tackle COVID-19. Our premiers truly took a team Atlantic approach.

In your opinion, why has the Atlantic region been so successful in slowing the virus?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

It really speaks to the different experiences that provinces and territories have had.

I have to say it's been a pleasure to work with all the health ministers from the Atlantic provinces, who have been extremely supportive of the other provinces. Even recently, the ministers and the Premier of Newfoundland were suggesting they would be there for Ontario. You're right that this demonstrates that provinces and territories acknowledge that we really are in this together. No Canadian is safe until all Canadians are safe.

One of the things I've noticed with the Atlantic provinces—really speaking bluntly here—is that those provinces did not wait to take action when there were outbreaks in communities. In fact, the measures they imposed probably felt very stringent, as an Atlantic member, when there were potentially very few cases in these outbreaks—five or 10 cases, in some cases. However, these premiers and health ministers made a decision to act very quickly on very few cases and to do the really hard work of contact tracing and isolation. The population itself understood that even though they were few in number, it was better overall to make a collective sacrifice to keep the region safe.

There's been a real focus on protecting and supporting people who are sick, and on isolating them appropriately so that they can indeed stay home. It seems easy to say to people, “Stay home when you're sick,” but isolation is actually really challenging. You can't leave your house. You cannot leave to get groceries. Oftentimes, if you don't have Internet or digital access, you are cut off from the world. Of course, if you're single or living in poverty, there are other barriers.

When I think about east coasters and the way they band together in general, it's true testimony to working together and collective action to fight a significant threat.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Minister, for that. I appreciate it.

I'm going to switch gears just a bit. Everyone around the world and within our country is eager to get vaccinated. Everyone is eager for this pandemic to end. My heart goes out to many in Canada, particularly those in the hot spots.

We hear stories and a variety of misleading claims that these vaccines can't be trusted or can't be safe because of the speed with which they were developed. What do you have to say about those promoting vaccine hesitancy? Quite frankly—and I know it's a million-dollar question—how do we combat that? We've talked about it in previous health sessions, but I continually see it on social media in different forms. How do we combat that, and what do you say about that?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Vaccine disinformation is not new. We've seen anti-vax types of information and disinformation sown in communities for other health threats, and this does lead to loss of life and to great suffering. Many of you have met Jill Promoli in your travels as MPs. She's the woman who lost her very young child to influenza, and she has been advocating for years for people to be immunized against the flu. When you hear the stories, you realize this is not specific to COVID-19.

Of course, these vaccines were developed in record time, and it's really a testament to the coordinated will and determination of science and researchers working together on a common goal. It's important that Canadians have access to and are pointed to credible sources. I always say to people who are hesitant or unsure that the best source of information for them is a personal health care provider, if they have one. Then of course there are health care websites that are government run and credentialed as such.

Part of it is our responsibility as leaders to make sure we're pointing the people who trust us in the right direction and that we're not giving messages that are meant to sow division. Rather, we should give people access to accurate information so they can make the best decision for themselves with a foundation of credible information. It isn't about trying to force people to accept vaccinations; it's about making sure they have the right information and credible information.

I'll end with this, MP Kelloway, because it's important. The risk from COVID-19 far outstrips any risk from vaccination. We know this. If you allow it, MP Kelloway and Chair, I'd love for Dr. Sharma to talk a bit about the technical end of what goes on at Health Canada to make sure these vaccines are indeed safe.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Yes, by all means.

[Dr. Stephen Lucas]

Perhaps I'll speak. Dr. Sharma is not a witness on the panel this afternoon.

Health Canada has a very rigorous, independent regulatory organization. It has very high standards for safety, quality and efficacy. We published our standards for this in the fall, and they're aligned with those of other leading regulators.

The review process involves teams of scientists from a variety of disciplines. We put in place an interim order to accelerate the reviews, without sacrificing any of the intense scientific analysis required to evaluate the vaccine submissions relative to those standards. This was enabled through a process of rolling review—that is, being able to look at the submission as it was provided—and by having multiple teams of reviewers associated with each submission. That way, they could work around the clock with the information provided, and, in collaboration with other leading regulators, ensure that every aspect of the review was looked at and decisions were taken in a timely fashion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

Mr. Thériault, you may go ahead. You have six minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Not only am I trying to understand, but I am also trying to put myself in the shoes of taxpayers wanting to understand how Canada negotiated its vaccine supply. Yesterday, we found out that, according to Pfizer's CEO, a third vaccine dose would probably be needed six to 12 months after the initial round, followed by a yearly booster. You negotiated with Pfizer for a vaccine that was supposed to be 95% effective against the virus with two doses. Did you get the same type of deal we see in those TV commercials, “buy two and get the third one free”?

How does this new information affect your negotiations, because it certainly changes things?

What are the scientific implications, and what do you plan to do?

Are we going to be at the mercy of pharmaceutical companies suddenly taking advantage of the situation to fill their order books?

How much will all this cost?

Are you going to skip your turn when it comes to getting the third dose of Pfizer?

I would like Ms. Anand and the NACI representative to answer.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for your question.

Personally, I'm still waiting to get my first dose.

Bear in mind that we will follow the advice of Health Canada.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

What, then, does Health Canada think?

What instructions do you follow when a game changer like this occurs? After all, this does change the game as far as vaccine procurement goes. Don't you agree?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Right now, we are negotiating with suppliers to make sure our contracts offer the flexibility we need to purchase other doses. The negotiation process is not over, however, because we have to wait for Health Canada's advice.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

With all due respect, Minister, it seems the need to be flexible applies only to the government, the purchaser. The situation has changed. We started with two doses, and now, a third has just been added; meanwhile, the time frame between the first and second doses is still under review.

How does this change affect the supply of other types of vaccines?

Are you going to prioritize other types of vaccines, instead of pursuing a third dose that is going to cost three times as much?

What do you say to that?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

May I answer now?

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Yes, but you can also answer in English, because you seem to have trouble articulating your thoughts clearly in French.

Actually, it's fine if the interpretation is good. The reason I suggested it is that your answers are somewhat perfunctory, Minister.