Health Committee on June 7th, 2021

[Bill Matthews]

In this case, PSPC actually used its own funding to acquire these, so in part of the estimates last year, PSPC was given additional money voted by Parliament where there was a need for procurement—because we are in direct contact with suppliers and are noticing shortages—to go ahead and procure things. Obviously, we consulted with health officials on the design, but the budget holder was PSPC in this case.

We also used that funding for things like setting up direct flights from China for PPE and contracting warehouse space in China for PPE, so it was to shorten the procurement timelines if we did notice an area of need and did that planning in advance; but, obviously, the detailed design was done in consultation with health officials, as well as experts from National Defence who have experience in setting up mobile hospital units.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Given that at the time there were constraints, there were public health concerns and there were questions around resources, you mentioned earlier that there were two suppliers. Can you tell me why they were selected?

[Bill Matthews]

Based on assessments, there are not a lot of companies in this business. We had two who have done these types of things before, often through efforts with the military in Afghanistan, as well as for the U .S. military, so we found two suppliers who were well experienced in these areas, both in design as well as in the procurement aspects, because both are important.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

They were known suppliers who were trusted to do the job.

Can you explain what type of contract this was and why it was most appropriate in the circumstances, based on the product or service needs?

[Bill Matthews]

The contract had a couple of elements, Mr. Chair.

Number one is the design, as I mentioned, and number two is to actually procure the equipment necessary to establish these things should they be needed, because, again, you have to have these on hand in advance of any request. As well, you have the storage of the equipment and then the deployment if it should be used, as well as the tear-down once the need has passed. There are those elements. Some of these are to be determined in terms of future use, but those are the basic elements of the contracts.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Was that a specific type of contract?

[Bill Matthews]

It's effectively a mix of goods and services. It's a total solution approach, where the supplier is indeed responsible for.... We jointly ran on the design, but the actual procurement of the equipment, the deployment, the maintenance and then the tear-down are the responsibility of the supplier.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

In your experience, would you consider this a tool that's frequently or flagrantly used in procurement?

[Bill Matthews]

The total service package across different industries...? Yes. I mean, these are obviously a fairly unique asset that the government has deployed. Again, they do require an awful lot of advance planning, because if there is a need, you have to effectively be out in front of it eight months in advance, but this turnkey-type solution is used in other procurements.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

In your professional experience, was this a contract that was awarded to the right suppliers for the right job and the necessary product or service?

[Bill Matthews]

We are confident that we found suppliers that were capable of delivering and helping with the design, and again, with two different models, which is important. When you look at Weatherhaven, they have a good partnership with ATCO trailers. SNC-Lavalin and its partner PAE had done this work together before, so it was a well-known partnership for the military and well experienced in these areas, and we were quite comfortable with their expertise.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Coming back to the issue of financial accountability for goods purchased versus in demand, have the MHUs been deployed?

[Bill Matthews]

We've had deployments in Ontario of the units that are stand-alone. I think people may be familiar with Sunnybrook and that deployment. There have also been discussions about potential deployment with other provinces, but to date Ontario is the only province that has actually resulted in a deployment.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Do they continue to be available should the need arise?

[Bill Matthews]

Yes, they're absolutely still there, Mr. Chair, should there be a call. It's one of these assets that you hope you never have to deploy, frankly, but should there be a need, they're available. There's one of each model available for deployment should it be needed.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Would they be available again in the event of a possible future health crisis? That is, do they have an expiry date?

[Bill Matthews]

Well, obviously for the equipment, for part of these units, some of it has expiry dates, but the actual “vehicle” itself, I'll call it, is available for some time should it be needed in the future. We're in discussions with our colleagues about eventual home for these things in terms of which department would retain responsibility.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Van Bynen, you're way over the time. I was distracted. I apologize.

We go now to—

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Chair, if I just might add, I wasn't keeping track either, but it seemed like that was a very long time. Can you tell me how many minutes were given to the Liberals there?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Van Bynen had an extra 37 seconds.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Oh, was that all? Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

It's all my fault. I apologize to the committee.

We'll now give the floor to Mr. Thériault.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question will be directed to Mr. Lucas from Health Canada, and possibly Mr. Matthews at some point.

On May 3, 2021, the department approved interim order number 2 regarding the importation and sale of medical devices for use with COVID‑19. This order replaces the first interim order signed on May 23, 2020; it maintains the optional authorization pathway established to facilitate clinical trials of potential COVID‑19 drugs and medical devices. It does so by providing regulatory flexibility so that other types of clinical trials can be conducted effectively. The Health Canada page even takes pains to point out that interim order 2 continues to make Canada an attractive place to conduct clinical trials, which will improve Canadians' access to potential treatment options for COVID‑19.

Could you explain this regulatory flexibility to me?

[Dr. Stephen Lucas, Deputy Minister, Department of Health]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Indeed, Health Canada did renew the interim order for clinical trials. These were part of a series of interim orders brought in during the course of the pandemic to enable the rapid review of medical devices, clinical trials, vaccines, therapeutic products and concurrent measures to ensure their safety, quality and efficacy.

The clinical trial interim order—