Health Committee on Oct. 24th, 2022

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

We have exceeded the time for the answer. As I said, this is a sprint. The answer is $650.

You know that for a $2 dentist bill, not only are you going to give $650 to a family, a family that might be excluded in any case if it is in Quebec, because that is what you are doing, but the difference between the two will never be invested in Quebec's public plan to offer real dental care to another child who needs it.

As an economist, you know how insurance works.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

There are two things.

First, families' needs vary considerably from one family to another, including among low-income families.

Second, the example of a single-parent family, a mother who is the sole family breadwinner, to take care of her children, suggests that this person would be unable to use that money to care for her children. I find that a bit over the top.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have to manage my speaking time and I am being accused of saying all sorts of things that I did not say.

Minister, if it were possible to give the Government of Quebec the right to withdraw with financial compensation for a program with similar objectives, what would you choose: immediate care for children in Quebec or a maple leaf in the corner of a cheque? That is what the federal government is after.

What would you choose: dental care or the maple leaf?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Like you, I think I would choose immediate care, and that is what is...

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

So why are you doing the opposite?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

We are not on Infoman, Mr. Garon.

You interrupt me every time I start to say something useful. It may be funny, but it is not really the objective of the meeting today.

I would say that we have to choose the immediate care. That is why, if members of Parliament agree, this is what we will be doing in a few weeks. I think we all have to be happy about this, particularly since it supplements the other...

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Chair, Infoman is going to interrupt the Minister again.

I have talked to economists you knew in your former professional life. They told me that the minister was simply using the billing to put up a barrier to assistance that everyone needs. Those people even told me that it was impossible for Jean-Yves Duclos to have done that and it probably came from higher up, because it had to be hurried up with the NDP.

What do you think about that?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

You are correct, Mr. Garon.

Yes, it is a barrier. Many families in Quebec are dealing with major financial barriers. It is not easy to manage with the cost of living in Quebec. I do not know your personal situation. Myself, I have children. So I was earning a relatively good salary, because I was a university professor, as you were. However, I am well aware that many people earn less than I do and are facing even more barriers. Those people have to give it thought and decide whether they are going to pay their rent at the end of the month, pay for groceries at the end of the week, or take their children to the dentist.

Those are very difficult choices to make. This program will add some money to what the Government of Quebec is providing now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Minister.

Next is Ms. Kwan, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, the NDP actually support this program. We feel very strongly that there should be a universal dental care program, and we're glad to hear that this is now before us.

Because this is by attestation for both the dental piece and the one-time housing benefit top-up, what plan does the government have to ensure that people know so that they can apply?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's very important, MP Kwan. That's why these conversations are so valuable.

We still have a few more weeks, but, first, we must pass this bill, given the urgency of the situation, and, second, we must all work together so that once this bill is passed Canadians know about it.

As MPs, this is one of our roles, to make sure Canadians, and especially Canadians with lower incomes, know about the program and access it, because this is good only if people access it. We have a lot of work to do in the next few weeks.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I have the same question for Minister Hussen.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

In addition to what Minister Duclos has just stated, I think it's also important to seek out all of the different stakeholders that the minister stated, in addition to all of the affordable housing stakeholders and advocates, to amplify what we're doing here so that vulnerable Canadians can benefit from this important help.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Would the government be undertaking—for example, in the dental care plan, because it's based on people's incomes—to send information directly to people's households to advise them that, if your income is less than $90,000 or less than $70,000, then you would be eligible? Would it be able to?

You could do a mail-out like that to every household so that people would become aware. You could do the same for the housing benefit as well. Would that be considered?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's an excellent suggestion. I would propose—I certainly wouldn't want to impose that—that you ask the question to the CRA officials who have come.... There are other things that the CRA does in general, such as awareness of the Canada child benefit, old age security and the guaranteed income supplement. I would suppose that they have already thought through these important actions that they can take to raise awareness and therefore increase access.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, because this is all tied to the child care benefit and you have in the system who is actually accessing that program. If a mail-out went out to those people, they would actually be able to have this information. I think that would be very useful.

Now I'll go on to the application process, particularly in relation to the housing benefit. The application process is only a 90-day process, which is a very quick turnaround. I'm particularly worried that people who have little access to technology or who have language barriers would not know about the program and would not be able to access it. What is the minister doing to address that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Kwan, can you come to your question quickly? You're out of time.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes. That was my question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Okay.

Could we have a brief answer, please?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

It's important that we work with a number of different advocates and organizations that do a lot of work to help people navigate different benefit systems for people who are eligible and need these supports. We'll work with them to make sure that's the case, as well as working with provinces and territories, as I said earlier, to make sure that people are not negatively impacted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you.

Dr. Ellis, you have five minutes, please.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

Minister Duclos, are you aware of how many witnesses are appearing before this committee that intends to spend $10 billion with this bill over five years?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, MP Ellis. I'm not aware of the committee's work. This work is done independently, certainly, of ministers like me, so I would ask the question—

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Have you any idea of how many public sector witnesses are going to be coming before this committee, for spending $10 billion over five years?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'm certainly aware of these two—