Evidence of meeting #37 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was children.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lynne Tomson  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health
Stephen Lucas  Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Nadine Leblanc  Senior Vice-President, Policy, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Of the public sector, sir.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

I'm sorry...?

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

I mean public sector witnesses.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

In the public sector, these are in Health Canada—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

They're with the government.

Great. Thank you, sir.

That being said, think about this. An economist once said that people need to learn how to spend their money, and that certain things need to be put on hold. Those are good words, I would suggest, sir.

Do you agree with that?

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

Yes, resources are rare. They need to be allocated where they matter the most. As I said earlier, this is—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Great. Thank you. That's wonderful, because it was you who said that.

It's interesting, sir, that with regard to mental health transfers, in the Liberal election platform of 2021, $875 million was to be spent or budgeted by now on mental health care, and here we are. We've not seen any of that money, sir, and we're spending money on dental care. That was promised in your platform. Dental care was not. What's the reason for that?

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

In the platform, $3 billion was indeed targeted for mental health care, plus additional dollars. The $3 billion was in the fiscal framework. We are negotiating agreements with provinces and territories on how to allocate that over the next five years.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Sir, we're beyond the year with $875 million not budgeted, not a penny spent, and we're spending something that was not in your platform. Can you explain to me the urgency that we need to get this money out there?

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

In—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

I'm sorry. There's just one thing I might add. I apologize for interrupting you.

In fact, we do know that there is a crisis in mental health care. I think everybody here knows that. I think anybody you passed on the street would say that. I'm not meaning to be disparaging on dental care, but I don't think anybody out there would say there's a dental care crisis. Mental health? Yes. True. Dental care crisis? I don't know about that, sir. That's $875 million.

Would you agree that there's a mental health crisis in this country?

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

Yes. There is one. That's why we're acting, and that's why, as I said—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Great. Thank you, sir. I appreciate that.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sean Casey

No. That's a little too abrupt after a 40-second question.

Minister, go ahead. You have another 38 seconds to answer the question.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

That's why, as I said earlier, we have $3 billion that we are currently allocating to provinces and territories in addition to the other $3 billion that we have invested since 2017.

Remember that the 2017 agreement was for over 10 years. It was $3 billion plus $3 billion, and we are currently in the second five years. That's why that $3 billion is there, and there will be more because the Prime Minister promised that. He promised that in the campaign, as you correctly noted.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

I guess, sir, the comment would be that, for those folks waiting for mental health care, they'd like the money today.

That being said, for Atlantic Canadians, some of whom I represent, it appears in this from the PBO that there's really no benefit, because we have a comprehensive program already. Is that correct, sir?

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

There are all sorts of programs in Canada. No program covers as much as this particular benefit. For children under the age of 12, with all the preventive, diagnostic and curative services included, there's no other program that exists in Canada.

Now, the great news is that, if there is such a program, that's fine because this is going to be complementary to what already exists.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Then it's clear, sir, that those provinces who have excellent programs now will be expected to continue those programs.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

I think we're all in the same boat. We all want good health for our children. The better we work together, the better it will be for our families and children.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Sir, am I correct in my assumption that Nova Scotia needs to continue its $11-million-a-year program for comprehensive dental care for children under 14?

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

I think we've seen over the last decade, and in fact over the last 155 years now, how Canada works as a team.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Sir, I think that's a simple question. Are they expected to continue their program for $11 million a year?

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

We all expect provinces and territories to keep investing in the health care of their people, including dental health care. Dental health care is health care. Our mouth is part of our body. It's a bit bizarre. I don't understand why you think oral health is not part of health.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Ellis Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Sir, I get that. That's not an issue.

For someone who has spent $36 for a child under two to have a dental assessment and review, they are going to get $650 from this program. Is that true? Can you get less than $650, sir, or do you spend $36 and get $650?

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Yves Duclos Liberal Québec, QC

What you do is spend on dental care for your children, and you need to have an income level below $90,000. You have to—