Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Nov. 1st, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Thank you.

Now, colleagues, we have six or seven minutes left, according to my clock. I have two speakers on the list. I'm happy to keep this list, and we can continue this debate on the Tuesday after we return from the break.

Here's the caveat: I am hearing that Bill C-55 is being referred to this committee, so I'm going to ask members, in compliance with our original agreement, that if that's here, we proceed with that. If that's before this committee, we'll proceed with that. So I'm going to ask members to submit two witness lists so we can proceed in accordance with what's before us.

Does that make sense?

Madam Redman.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I'm just a bit curious. Don't we usually receive a bill in committee and then discuss it and then after that...? I haven't seen the bill, and I'm sure there's a break week and there will be lots of time, but generally speaking we see it and have a look at it before we submit witness lists. That is my recollection of how that process usually unfolds.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I'm happy to go with that.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I believe that during routine proceedings this morning, that bill was deemed presented to the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

No, it wasn't, no.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[Joe Preston, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I've been incorrect before, but it was not this year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Order, order. To the chair, please, to the chair.

My understanding from my clerks is that there is an indication that the bill will be referred promptly to the committee. So in preparation of the fact that it will be here when we return....

We can easily be, as we have been in the past, very lenient about witness lists. If you have any witnesses you want to provide, that's fine. I think at this stage we need to get witness lists in preparation for the continuation of this discussion.

Can I ask you, colleagues, to have those witnesses to our clerk by Monday at 5 p.m. for this issue? Monday is November 5, just to be absolutely certain. Are we in agreement here, on all sides, that it be by Monday at 5 p.m.?

I am just trying to anticipate business of the committee. I suspect the bill will come probably tomorrow. We will not be meeting before tomorrow. If you see the bill, let's start thinking about witness lists there as well so that the committee can be as efficient as possible.

By the way, we're not anticipating a decision by the House. This is just a bill that I know is very likely coming.

I'll go to Mr. Epp on a point of order.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

It's on the issue of Bill C-55. I believe the Speaker has ruled that this has been referred to the committee as a carry-over from the previous Parliament.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Okay.

At this moment in time, at 12:56, reading the blues, it's not clear that this is the order of the Speaker. It is not clear to me, as the chair of this committee, that this direct order is made. My interpretation is that it's coming, but unless I'm about to get a different clarification....

Let's just pause on that for a minute. Maybe I'm getting the right answer to that question.

Monsieur Proulx.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to understand our procedure. Do we not normally receive such a bill from the House, look at it at this committee, and then decide if we need witnesses, if we want witnesses?

[An hon. member]

Exactly.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

May I continue, please?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

Please, of course.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Do we not normally receive it and do we not normally look at it, decide as a group if witnesses are necessary and, if they are, file our list of witnesses?

To be very honest with you, we don't know what witnesses could be called because we don't know the exact sense or content of that particular bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

My understanding is that this bill was lost at prorogation. It was reintroduced without any changes. My apologies if members haven't seen this bill already. I assumed that members had seen the bill.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Was it ever in front of this committee? I don't think so.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

I don't know that it's been in front of this committee, but it has been introduced in the House.

Well, that's fine. We will just do our best to get witness lists.

Please, go ahead.

[Michel Bédard, Committee Researcher]

The format of the bill that was tabled is the same as that of the former Bill C-55 which was before the committee when Parliament was prorogued.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Was that bill already before the committee? Had we already examined it, sir?

[Michel Bédard]

The committee had begun to look at the bill and Minister Van Loan had testified. His was the only testimony heard by the committee in relation to the bill.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Therefore, we would need to look at it again in committee to decide what our next move will be.

[Michel Bédard]

It's up to committee members to...

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I'm saying to the researchers that we need to look at it together so that we can decide what we're going to do with it. What if we decide, when we get it, that we accept it as is? We don't need witnesses. But if we decide not to, or if we decide we want explanations, then we can decide on what types of and what witnesses we want.

What I am saying to you is that I don't think we need, at this time, to decide on the witnesses without knowing what we want to do with the bill. Therefore, on Tuesday, November 13, we could deal with that to start with, continue on this particular subject, and get the witnesses later.

I very respectfully submit that to the chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Goodyear]

And that's respectfully accepted.

We have then the witness lists to be presented to the clerk, on the matter that we were discussing today, by Monday at 5 o'clock. As to Bill C-55--I'm not sure what the number will be when it comes in--we have seen it. We have started studying it. Please take your time to refresh your memories on the bill. Just so that the clerks are prepared and the committee doesn't waste too much time, if you have any witnesses, get them to us. We will discuss further witnesses on Tuesday, November 13.

Is that acceptable?

Comment, Mr. Reid?