Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 17th, 2011

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

I said we provided more information, Mr. Brison, than you had actually requested.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Let's go back to our practice of going through the chair instead of to each other. I think we'll stay on safer ground that way.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

My apologies, Mr. Chair.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

The minister just said that on December 10, when his department said that the information requested was covered by cabinet confidence...he agrees that it was covered by cabinet confidence. So is he saying that his government broke cabinet confidence when it released this information subsequent to that?

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

No. We provided information that was extracted from what was cabinet confidentiality.

At that point the committee had asked for specifics. So we looked through, with legal advice, what could actually, from your request, be provided to you. That was what was provided to you--more, actually, than what the committee had asked for.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Chair, the information we requested was in fact identical to the information that the previous Liberal government had provided in November 2005 in the economic statement, the projections of corporate profits before income tax over a five-year period. It wasn't cabinet confidence then and it was not cabinet confidence when the government told us it was cabinet confidence on December 10.

Mr. Menzies, in November 2008--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Through the chair.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

--through you, Mr. Chair--in your government's now infamous fiscal update, at that time your government projected a $100-million surplus. That was based on a $10.1-billion sale of assets. We have been asking for that list of assets ever since.

The fact is that you were already in a structural deficit even before the downturn, and you cooked the books at that time.

Try to convince me otherwise by providing the list of assets that you've sold since then.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Well, I guess your terminology of “structural deficit” must be different from any other economist's in Canada, because no other economist assumed that. So forgive me, I'll believe the economists.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Chair, the government said there was going to be a $100-million surplus in November 2008, and to achieve that surplus there was going to be an asset sale of $10.1 billion. The government has since then failed to provide us with a list of assets.

I'm asking the minister to provide the list of assets that were designated for sale then and the list of assets that were sold. Otherwise, then, I assume most economists would interpret that as a government fudging the books.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Minister Menzies, I'll allow you to answer if you'd like, but we're beyond the scope of this motion of privilege.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

The minister was speaking about projections. He opened it up to projections, so I thought this was perfectly reasonable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Well, I opened it up to my riding. If you'd like to talk about that for a while, that would be good too. But that's not going to happen today, so let's....

You can answer, Minister Menzies, and then we'll move on.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

I would like to defer to Mr. Nevison, because he has some pertinent figures.

[Doug Nevison, Director, Fiscal Policy Division, Economic and Fiscal Policy Branch, Department of Finance]

I'll just give a quick response to the question pertaining to corporate asset sales.

With regard to the 2008 statement, you're correct; there were some savings or there were revenues booked on that front. However, in light of the global recession and the impact that had on the fiscal situation, in the September of 2009 update that revenue was withdrawn from the fiscal framework.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

So in the fall of 2008--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Excuse me, Mr. Brison--

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

--during the heart of a global financial crisis--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Order, Mr. Brison.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

--your government didn't realize that it might be a little tough to sell those assets?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Brison, we're not so far away from you that you can't hear when I'm calling your name, I hope.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

It's an age issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes, I have it too, but they tend to work. Your time is up.

We'll go to Mr. Young.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you, Chair

Thank you, Minister, for coming here today.

There's been some confusion with respect to the position of small business, notably the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, on the business tax reductions, which were approved by Parliament way back in 2007. Some among the opposition have suggested that the CFIB holds a position that is not supportive, specifically that it was not a priority. Can you clarify for the record what the Canadian Federation of Independent Business actually says about business tax reductions?

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Thank you, and through you, Mr. Chair--