Evidence of meeting #40 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was code.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mary Dawson  Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Lyne Robinson-Dalpé  Assistant Commissioner, Advisory and Compliance, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Eppo Maertens  Director, Reports and Investigations, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Nancy Bélanger  General Counsel, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Noon

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

My concern is the reputation of politicians. I mean, this whole thing is about assuring the public that these politicians are good guys, basically, and when you see some of the stuff that goes on, sometimes it oversteps, I think. But again, I am not sure it's me; it may be—

Noon

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

But you want that conversation.

Noon

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

There needs to be a conversation on that.

Noon

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

We share common purposes.

Noon

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Noon

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Thank you, Chair.

Noon

NDP

Nycole Turmel NDP Hull—Aylmer, QC

How much time is left, Mr. Chair?

Noon

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Joe Comartin

Fifteen seconds left.

Noon

NDP

Nycole Turmel NDP Hull—Aylmer, QC

Have you looked at distinguishing between activities on or related to the Hill, to which all members are invited, regardless of political stripe, and events—receptions or meals, for instance—to which a single person is invited? Have you thought about handling those scenarios in two different ways? It might be appropriate to assume that, if everyone is invited to attend, the event does not warrant disclosure.

Noon

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

Yes, I think it would be possible to make that distinction. The likelihood of a problem goes up when a single member or only a few people are invited to a major event.

Noon

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Joe Comartin

Mr. Garneau, you have the floor.

Noon

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC

Thank you.

I have a question on the issue of gifts. There are gifts that are material, and we can try to cost them and usually get fairly close to that. There are gifts that are immaterial, such as somebody staying at a fishing lodge, let's say. Even if they bring their food and their sleeping bag, they are staying in the place.

Do you have a process by which you interpret or make a decision about, for example, a night of lodging and how much that is actually worth, or do you discount that completely?

Noon

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

No, we would look at that. Each case is different one from the other. You have to just kind of take a look at the situation and—

Noon

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC

But you do try to quantify it in terms of.... Because you do have this $500 threshold.

Noon

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

Certainly, yes.

Noon

Liberal

Marc Garneau Liberal Westmount—Ville-Marie, QC

Okay. Very good.

Thank you.

Noon

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Joe Comartin

I'm going to ask a question. This is really about something that came from the brief we received from our analysts.

With regard to the penalties—that recommendation of financial penalties—there was some suggestion that it in fact may require an amendment to the Parliament of Canada Act for us to be able to impose penalties. The House does not have the ability to impose penalties on the individual members. In certain cases we can hold back money from their pay, but there is no provision anywhere for us to be able to impose penalties.

My basic question.... From looking at you, Ms. Dawson, I'm assuming you haven't caught this point, but I'll ask the question anyway. Have you caught the point and have you sought a legal opinion?

Noon

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

No, I haven't looked into that issue.

Noon

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Joe Comartin

It's something further we will have to take up with you as we're looking at this.

Noon

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Noon

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Joe Comartin

Are there any other questions? No? All right.

Thank you, Ms. Dawson. The committee is quite clear on the need for some changes, and we'll be back in touch.

Noon

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

Thank you very much.

Noon

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Joe Comartin

That is it, unless there are any other issues. No?

The meeting is adjourned.