Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 18th, 2013

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Beauce for the Beaucerons, absolutely.

On the other hand, what is the situation regarding Mégantic—L'Érable? There were 88,745 inhabitants before the change you propose.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

There is a decline of approximately 1,200 residents, from 88,000 to 86,000.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

That is probably what will force matters somewhat for the commission.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

According to its proposal, the number of electors would be 112,000. That is a variance of much more than 10% above the quota, the goal being less than 10%. At 88,000 electors, we are slightly below that. Under the proposal, however, my riding would reduce the variance to less than 10% of the quota, to 107,000 electors.

So with 86,000 electors, Mégantic—L'Érable has a negative variance from the quota.

One riding had a variance that was greater than the quota, but now we have a district with a variance below the quota.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

There is no increase in the number of electoral districts that exceed the goal of a maximum variance of 10%.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Precisely.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you very much, colleagues.

Thanks to all those who have come to meet us. We will see how matters turn out. The request seems very logical to me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Monsieur Gourde, five minutes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank my colleagues for testifying here this morning. I also thank the people from Les Etchemins for travelling to Ottawa. I think that shows how great the sense of belonging to a region and to its history really is.

You colleagues who have been working with these people since 2006 are in a very good position to know that the sense of belonging to a region abides over several generations. Your two regions have been marked by that and have shown this attachment since Confederation. That feeling is also very strong among the people from Beauce.

You can tell us again about that sense of belonging. I noted earlier that Mr. Blaney wanted to do that.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Gourde. I find it strange to call you Mr. Gourde or sir. I will call you Jacques and that can be stricken later.

Last September, the electoral boundaries commission said it wanted to take steps to have the electoral district named Louis-Fréchette. We said no at the time. The people of Bellechasse mobilized, and the people of Les Etchemins said they wanted to keep the name Bellechasse. That is why I have been using the name Lévis—Bellechasse—Les Etchemins for six years. That helps people understand that Les Etchemins represents nearly one-third of the district. It is a forest environment, which is different from that of the urban portion of the city of Lévis, which we share as members. That is one way of acknowledging it.

To have a name is to exist. When you take away a name or, even worse, shift a region from one electoral district to another, that becomes a problem. What particularly irritated the warden of the RCM, and what caused general indignation, was the wish to separate Les Etchemins from Bellechasse. If we go back a little way in history, we see that there have been movements of this kind. There was the electoral district of Dorchester, for example, but Les Etchemins and Bellechasse have always been together, even though they migrated. They were at times attached to Montmagny, but they have always been together. It has to be said that separating Bellechasse from Les Etchemins is a historical error. We as members want to correct that. It is important to emphasize that fact.

I believe you have the opportunity as a committee to correct this mistake of breaking up a whole whose elements to date have been integrated. Les Etchemins is facing major economic challenges. Bellechasse's great dynamic and solidarity offset them. That is why I recommend not only that the commission's initial decision be upheld and respected, but also that Lévis, Bellechasse and Les Etchemins be included in the name of the electoral district. I believe that the message is strong. The name indicates at the outset that they go together and that they are made to be together.

[Maxime Bernier, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

As regards the sense of belonging, the municipalities of Saint-Ludger and Saint-Robert-Bellarmin have never accepted or gotten over the Quebec government's decision to include those municipalities in the RCM of Le Granit. That is not their reality. Their hometown is more Saint-Georges than Mégantic. Proof of that is that, according to the town's resolutions, they want to return to Beauce. They do not want to see a repeat at the federal level of what they have experienced at the provincial level, that is being included in an RCM to which they feel no sense of belonging. The people of Lévis love you so much they want to stay with you.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

The people of Les Etchemins perceived the situation as an insult by their institutions. However, respect is the basis of our sense of belonging, and I think it is important to respect this regional characteristic in order to maintain Les Etchemins' sense of belonging, but also so that it can belong to a pan-Canadian whole.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

I want to say that those regions deserve a high level of attention and that they are currently very well represented by their federal members.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Madame Hughes.

I'm sorry, I'm trying to figure out who is next on my list.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I very much appreciate my colleagues' speeches.

I believe that the time and tools necessary for the commission to make its decisions have been a challenge.

I come from Ontario and I represent one of the largest electoral districts in Canada. Apart from the organizations, you mentioned more than 70 communities. I can tell you that I have more. You also mentioned 458 km—

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

No, it is not as bad as it is in your district; we are talking about 258 km.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Yes, my district extends over approximately 120,000 km.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Is it that much?

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Pardon me, it is 103,000 km.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

How many municipalities are there in your riding?

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

I have not counted them all, but I am sure there are more than 100.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

More than 100!

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

There are also 17 first nations communities.

It is a constant challenge. When it takes two days to cross a community during a break week or a weekend, that does not leave a lot of time to serve people, especially when there is no public transit.

I really appreciate your comments on this point. I believe that someone will have to reform the Constitution at some point to define the rules more clearly. It is easier to serve people if the population limit is 100,000 inhabitants. In Toronto, people have access to public transit and can easily travel to places that provide services that have not yet been cancelled, as they have in some communities like those located in northern Ontario and Quebec.

I believe these are the challenges we have to face. These people do not have the same representation as those living in urban areas. We have to be aware of that. That is why I think that the commission or the commissions that have been established should have had more flexibility to maintain the status quo in certain regions without having to say that it was because of numbers.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Ms. Hughes, I would like to make a similar comment.

Some federal ridings are becoming so big that they stretch over several administrative regions. If we were to uphold the decision on Les Etchemins, there would be five RCMs, each with its own SADC and CLD. These are important partners. Every time we add a region, there has to be more follow-up.

I compare this situation to that of a colleague whom I adore. His riding is located south of Montreal, and two municipal councillors generally come and sit down with him for coffee the day after the federal government makes a major announcement. They do a review of the district and wonder what they will do with all that. In some cases, as in Est-du-Québec, it is quite different. Yours is quite disturbing. This represents days of work, and it has to be done if you want to have the same quality of information. When I do a tour because of something important such as a budget, I have to spend an entire week there before I can say that the people who asked me questions have received an answer.