Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 13th, 2014

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I think the system provides excellent tools to help disabled people vote right now. The problem is that a lot of disabled Canadians are not aware of those tools, so often they decide not to go to vote, out of concern that they won't be able to cast their ballot upon arrival. That's a concern I heard from organizations such as People First and the Canadian National Institute For the Blind. It's not helpful to have braille services if a visually impaired person doesn't know that they can acquire those services.

The bill, in clause 7, requires Elections Canada to inform the disabled of the special tools available to help them vote. That measure has been applauded by the Canadian National Institute For the Blind and others. I think it will be helpful in encouraging turnout among Canadian disabled people.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Minister, you have something here that I don't think anybody has touched on yet. For the Advisory Committee of Political Parties there is a provision that they would meet once a year to talk to the CEO to give him guidance on issues and that he would provide guidance back.

Can you discuss that?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Yes.

The Advisory Committee of Political Parties already exists. This will create a legal recognition of it. It will require the CEO to consult with this committee when he changes his interpretations, so that parties can provide some input on the impacts those changes will have on their operations. I think this is a practical non-binding tool that will allow political parties and the CEO to exchange information and make good decisions and rulings.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

There's also a section that provides better customer service. I'd like a little better definition of that. To me that means it makes it easier, clearer, fairer, and more convenient for people to vote. Can you describe that concept within the act?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Yes. Two million Canadians voted in advance ballots in the last election. That's very positive. A lot of people are busy on election day and we want to give them as many opportunities as possible to vote early, and that's why we're adding an advance ballot day, an extra day of voting for all Canadians to use. We're also going to require Elections Canada to advertise that advance voting day so that people are aware that it exists.

Finally, we are going to allow Elections Canada more resources to provide officials who can relieve congestion at busy voting stations, and that will make for shorter wait times and less confusion when people show up to cast their ballots.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

On the delineation between terms of reference between the CEO and the commissioner, could you describe how that is going to improve the overall voting process and the conduct of Elections Canada as we conduct elections in Canada going forward?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

The commissioner is in charge of investigations. The CEO's principal responsibility is to run elections. I think it would help the CEO to focus more on that core mandate. Anybody who has read the Neufeld report will realize there were very serious irregularities in appallingly high numbers in the last election. There were 165,000 serious errors committed by Elections Canada under the CEO's leadership. I think we can only improve on that if he focuses on that core mandate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you. Your time is complete.

Mr. Scott, for four minutes.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I would ask Mr. Lynch or Ms. Mondou to have a look at page 219 of the bill, proposed sections 509.4 and 509.6. I'd like to come back to that before the end of my question. It's a very technical question.

For the Minister, the new section 20 of the act basically says the Chief Electoral Officer may engage on a temporary basis the service of persons having technical or specialized knowledge, but it goes on to say that to appropriate the funds for that he has to get Treasury Board approval. That's section 20 of the act.

Minister, could you confirm that this provision now means that Elections Canada would no longer have the independence to commission such reports as the Neufeld report, which you like to cite, or the Institute for Research and Public Policy's study on robocalls that was instrumental in putting together the Chief Electoral Officer's report on deceptive calling. The need for the approval of the Treasury Board is something I'm very concerned about in terms of inserting the government between the Chief Electoral Officer and his ability to carry out studies.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I don't think you're referring to section 20. You're referring to section 509.4.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

No. I asked, please, section 20 of the new act is the question I asked.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

The new act doesn't have sections, because it's not an act yet. It has clauses.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Would you answer the question, please. You know what I'm referring to. Treasury Board approval for hiring specialists such as Neufeld.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

You're referring to clause 20.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Clause 20 in the new act, section 20 in the new act.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Right, so section 20...you're relating to the....

There's something called the deputy head of any organization. Right now the deputy head for the purposes of staffing and contracting is the CEO of Elections Canada. We're making the commissioner independent of the CEO of Elections Canada. That will make the commissioner his own deputy head for the purposes of the Public Service Employment Act.

However, for the purposes of the Financial Administration Act, the deputy head will be the Director of Public Prosecutions. As a result, he will play the functional role that is currently played by the CEO of Elections Canada with regard to contracting—

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Minister, I need to interrupt.

My question was about the Chief Electoral Officer's ability to hire specialists only with Treasury Board approval.

I asked Mr. Lynch to be prepared for the second question, which you're dealing with, and you're not actually answering it. The first question is regarding Treasury Board approval to hire the Neufelds, the Institute for Research and Public Policy, all of those. Is it correct that you now need the President of the Treasury Board's, the Treasury Board's, approval for the Chief Electoral Officer, not the commissioner?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I'll let the official comment on that point.

[Matthew Lynch, Director of Parliamentary Affairs, Legislation and House Planning, Privy Council Office]

The proposed amendment to section 20 in clause 10 is with respect to technical and specialized services, such as support for computer systems, for example, varied administrative support for the organization. It's a standard clause that is used in a number of different statutes, including those for other agents of Parliament. The role of the Treasury Board is to approve the person's remuneration expenses, not the contract itself.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Exactly. So the point is that Treasury Board approval is needed for those kinds of temporary contracts.

[Matthew Lynch]

I would point out that Treasury Board's approval is also needed for the payment of election officers. That's how that usually works.

[Craig Scott, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Then the last question is for the minister. I'm going to skip the technical question, because we got into it earlier.

Are you aware, Minister, that the Neufeld report recommended the expanding of the use of voter identification cards?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I am aware of the recommendation. I'm also aware of the data, and I appreciate the excellent work that Mr. Neufeld did in providing that data.

The reality is that Elections Canada has acknowledged that one in six people on the national register of electors has false information associated with their name. That false information then flows onto the voter information card. We cannot have voter information cards that have errors one in six times used to identify voters at the polls. It is too susceptible to abuse. That's why we're removing that form of ID.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Reid, you have four minutes.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Several years ago, to be specific, on April 27, 2006, Jean-Pierre Kingsley, who was then the chief electoral officer, appeared before this committee. I was a member then, as I am now. I drew to his attention the fact that in the 2006 election, which was then of recent memory, I had received three voter cards at my address: one addressed to Scott Geoffrey Reid—that's my full name—one addressed to Scott Reid, and one to Geoffrey Reid.

Strictly speaking, there were no errors made, but I had three cards. I could have voted with one, if it was accepted as ID, at the returning office, with one at the advance poll, and with one at my local poll. They all are staffed by different people. That is an inadvisable approach for someone who is actually a member of Parliament, but the point I think is made that these things are not reliable identification.

In a later election, a provincial election, in all fairness, my wife and I, who live, of course, in the same house, received voter cards, hers using the rural route address, which is in one riding, mine using the street address in another riding. The result was that we were actually told by the cards to vote in different ridings. So I concur that there are problems, and I have experienced them myself.

I wanted to raise two issues. One is really for the CEO, not for yourself, Minister, a question about how many people have a driver's licence. The really relevant question is, since there are 39 pieces of identification, what percentage of Canadians have none of them? If there are some, they will not be a random cross-section of Canadians, but a specialized group for some reason or in an unusual situation.

I'd like to hear his response as to whether he has gone through to try to identify people who, like the senior citizens living at mobile polls in Etobicoke Centre, were unable to vote because the vouching system did not allow them to vote. It did nothing for them, who also had no ID.

Here's the thing I wanted to say to you, Mr. Minister, regarding your meeting with the Chief Electoral Officer. He submitted a very lengthy report and recommendations to this committee. We reviewed it at great length. I would have been very upset if, at that meeting, he had come to you with any recommendations separate and distinct from those. I would have been even more upset with you if you had produced a bill based on his private recommendations to you that do not correspond with his recommendations made to the entire committee, which were passed on to the government for you to follow through.

I simply want to go on the record saying that you got plenty of input from him via this committee and did the right thing. One may disagree with individual things in the bill, but you did the right thing by coming back and dealing with it in the normal manner.

Thank you.