Evidence of meeting #40 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Thomas Mulcair  Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

11:50 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

It's funny that he keeps jumping like that. I wonder why he's so sensitive.

When did the Saskatchewan office open up, Mr. Mulcair?

11:50 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

Of course there is no Saskatchewan office, but there will be a person working for me in Saskatchewan. If we had to rely on the lone Liberal there, not much would get done, and the Conservatives of course take the place for granted. There are issues like the movement of grain, the bumper crop, the inability to get it to market. Being there, on the ground, matching move for move what the government does...because our role as official opposition requires us to do that.

We will be hiring someone in Saskatchewan, but no, there won't be an office.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you.

Again, the chair doesn't want to have to yell over, but please, when I say thank you, that probably means bring it to a close there.

We'll go to Mr. Woodworth, please.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Mulcair, I'd like to go back to the issue of mailing. For a moment I'll leave aside the question of using taxpayer dollars through free mailing privileges to send out thousands, and hundreds of thousands, of election campaign pieces.

But would you agree with me at least that the NDP and the Liberals and the Conservatives, that no party should be allowed to use House of Commons envelopes to send out election campaign materials relating to the 2015 election?

11:50 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

There's a great article in iPolitics that summarizes the situation. It's by Elizabeth Thompson, dated April 10, 2013. It has to do with what we thought at the time was a misuse by the Liberals and Bob Rae: a direct attack on Craig Scott, our extraordinary member of Parliament from Toronto—Danforth.

We asked the Speaker to rule, and it was brought to the Board of Internal Economy. He made a couple of tweaks with regard to the numbers, but he essentially confirmed to the NDP that this type of very personal attack, partisan attack, by the Liberals against the NDP was indeed allowed.

So I'm sorry, we're not going to roll over, if the others are allowed to use these techniques, and.... The Conservatives invented it. There is a little bit of humour in listening to Mr. Woodworth on this today. We respect the rules.

By the way, I will remind Mr. Woodworth that section 1 of the Members By-Law talks about our “duties and activities...wherever performed and whether or not performed in a partisan manner”.

That's the key to our discussion here today, Mr. Chair.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Mulcair, you're conveniently overlooking the rule that says that it is not a parliamentary function to engage in activities in the context of an election. I believe that there is no authority whatsoever from any ruling that says that one can engage in election activities with the use of House of Commons resources. Do you agree with me about that, yes or no?

11:50 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

Well, that goes back to a recent issue involving Bourassa, when there were allegations that we had sent things out during the writ period.

You know you can't do much more than ask Marc Mayrand to look at it. When he wrote back within 24 hours, he said the NDP didn't send it out during the writ period. We had respected all the rules there as well.

Well, that's the best proof we can offer. The director general of elections of Canada has said that everything that we did respected the rules.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Mulcair, I'm very sorry that you won't at least agree that House of Commons resources should not be used to send election materials regarding the 2015 election. I surely hope that you will put a stop to that with your members, but I'm not too optimistic.

I'd like to go back to the other point. You've produced no statement or evidence or email whatsoever that confirms that you or your party advised the House of Commons that you would be having House of Commons-paid staff working in a partisan political office.

I want to ask you.... Surely you understand the ethical issues that arise and the poor appearance that arises from having House of Commons resources working out of a partisan political office. Do you not understand that?

11:55 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

Well, I also understand that when this change was made on April 8, 2014 it was conclusive proof that it wasn't interdicted prior to that date. So we respected the rules before and the minute this new rule was adopted and this amendment was brought in, we respected that as well.

I'm sure that the member is not suggesting that through his retroactive retrospective reflections we're somehow bound by something that didn't exist at the time.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Mulcair, all you have to do is look at section 4.1 of the Members’ Allowances and Services Manual and you will see the rule that requires that members only may pair with other members, provincial members, or local municipal officials. There's nothing there that authorizes paid partisan political party offices.

11:55 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

There was nothing until April 8, 2014, that interdicted it. That's why the rule was brought in, the new rule. The rule changed. The amendment was brought in and interdicted it, and we've respected the new rule ever since.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joe Preston

Thank you, Mr. Mulcair.

You have the next four minutes also, Mr. Woodworth.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

In that case I'd like to move on to the issue of the Saskatchewan job posting and ask you about that. Just let me find my note, Mr. Mulcair.

Do you admit that your job posting for the House of Commons-paid position in Saskatchewan said that this was for the purpose of assisting members of Parliament with outreach to their constituents, yes or no?

11:55 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I caught the sense of your question, Mr. Woodworth. Would you like to try again?

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

Do you admit that the job posting you put out for a House of Commons-paid position in Saskatchewan stated that the position was to “Assist Members of Parliament with outreach to their constituents”, yes or no?

11:55 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

It was boilerplate, based on provinces where we did have members. It was a mistake and it was corrected right away.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

All right and it was corrected after the media drew it to your attention that, in fact, you have no members in Saskatchewan.

11:55 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

Well, would that it were possible for us to create members of Parliament based on an ad, but that's not the way it works. So, yes, we did make a mistake—I hate to admit we made a mistake—and we corrected it.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

So, in the future, I take it you are going to commit that you will not try to hire House of Commons-paid staff to assist your MPs with constituents they don't have. Can we get that commitment from you?

11:55 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

You can have my commitment that we will go into Saskatchewan and we'll be the only political party listening to people, and when we win a majority of seats in Saskatchewan in the next election, it will be thanks to that, Mr. Woodworth.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

Now, let's just get it on the record clearly, Mr. Mulcair. You're saying that your representatives told the House of Commons administration that the staff that you were hiring under this scheme would be working in a partisan political office. Is that what you're telling us?

11:55 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

We're telling you that prior to April 8, 2014, there was nothing that interdicted that. In all of our correspondence—we have dozens and dozens of letters and emails with the House administration—it was made clear that they were working in Montreal. They're allowed to work in Montreal and up until April 2014, they were allowed to work in premises paid for by a political party.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

You're kind of avoiding my question. I'm going to take it that you never told the House—

11:55 a.m.

Leader of the Official Opposition and Leader of the New Democratic Party, NDP

Thomas Mulcair

There was nothing wrong with it until April 8, 2014, Mr. Woodworth.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Mulcair, you have lots of time to give yourself supporting explanations. My question was, did you tell the House of Commons staff, that is, administration, that these staffers would be working in a partisan political office, yes or no?