Evidence of meeting #46 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mailings.
A video is available from Parliament.
8:10 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
If I can move one, debate it, and get a decision, Chair, yes, I would appreciate that.
8:10 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
The motion I am bringing forward is the notice of motion that I had served. It reads as follows:
That the Committee request that the Auditor General of Canada conduct an audit into the mailing programs of all Members of Parliament from March 31, 2010 forward, including the mailing programs of House Officers and Ministers, to determine whether any by-laws were violated in the production or sending of addressed or unaddressed mail by Members, and report back to the Committee no later than Monday, December 15, 2014.
Chair, I don't have a long speech, which, given our history, you will greatly appreciate, I am sure.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Well, first I'd like to rule on whether or not your motion is in order.
I'm ruling that your motion is not in order for this committee. It's again—
8:10 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
But nobody has raised a complaint. I mean, we had the Speaker who said that things were okay unless somebody raised a complaint, and he wasn't going to step in. But now you're applying rules differently and you're going to step in without a complaint?
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
I think at the procedure and House affairs committee the chair should do his best to make sure that anything that's happening at the committee falls into the rules. In this case, I'm going to suggest that your motion is out of order before we get into discussing it, as we should, so that we don't get halfway through the discussion and then the chair makes that ruling. I'm simply ruling that it's outside the scope of this committee, as I have with a couple of other motions.
The other side of it, of course, is that the Auditor General has the freedom to do any audit that the Auditor General would like to do.
So I'll rule the motion out of order.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
On a point of order, Chair, I'm going to try to do something to help David. I really am.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
Tom Lukiwski Conservative Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK
Well, no.... We heard today from Mr. Watters that any request for an investigation by the Board of Internal Economy has been conducted, so if you want to see.... Why don't you make the request to the Board of Internal Economy? You have representation on there. They can do a whole investigation, right? They've never been refused, according to Mr. Watters, so you can get what you're looking for by simply.... If this is out of order and you have no other recourse, make application to the board.
8:10 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I hear what you're saying, but that's presuming this is dead. I think we have a little bit of a process left, I would hope, so that I could at least make a pitch—very brief, with respect.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Truly, I'm not supposed to let you do it, but because I love you, David, go ahead and give me your one-minute pitch, and I'll—
8:10 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Well, I'll return the love, Chair, and I really will be brief.
Mr. Lukiwski just talked about how if that doesn't work, as an alternative.... But that doesn't necessarily mean that this is out of order. I fail to understand why a motion of recommendation that asks for auditing work is out of order. That's really all that's happening.
Whether it goes to the BOIE or to the Auditor General directly is up to you, Chair, but the notion that it's okay for us to have this witch hunt that's going on meeting after meeting after meeting and that it's not okay to ask the Auditor General to do a formal review of everybody's mailing, with everybody equal, out in public.... It's what we've been asking for, for so long.
Chair, I find it remarkable that a motion that speaks to the very issue we're talking about here, that broadens it out to make it fair and to bring in one of the most trusted people in Canada, the Auditor General.... I don't see how that could possibly be out of order when it's just a recommendation. It's very germane, for that matter, to the subject matter in front of us right now, Chair.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Fine. Thank you, David. I did let you make your point, but I will rule the motion out of order.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Is it a point of order that's different from that one, Mr. Julian?
8:10 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
No, it's on the same one, but I'm hoping for your generosity here to give me 30 seconds.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
The 30 seconds I gave Mr. Christopherson included your extra 30 seconds too—
8:10 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
The Auditor General came to this committee and requested this. The Auditor General came to the procedure and House affairs committee, you'll recall, last fall, and actually requested permission to be able to audit the Parliament of Canada, so it would be impossible, except if we live in a kangaroo court—
8:10 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
—to rule something out of order that the Auditor General requested here at this very committee.
8:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joe Preston
Mr. Julian, again, there are some rules here. When I start to talk, I'm going to shut you down, but—
8:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC
Only rules that help the Conservatives, it seems, Mr. Chair.