Procedure and House Affairs Committee on June 18th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Julian, was that franked mail or did it come as a householder or a ten percenter?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

It is known as a—

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

It's a ten percenter. It's known by the House.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Yes, vicious and partisan, and it references the CPC caucus website, which basically asks people, “Who's on the right track?” It references the CPC caucus website, but the CPC caucus website is owned by none other than the Conservative Party of Canada. That's very interesting.

So we have sort of a front website that is part of the secretive CIMS program that has been involved in a lot of the controversial mailings. But this is okay, as I understand it, because....

I'm not going to put words in your mouth. We appreciate your being here, and I think this has actually been extremely valuable to the NDP to demonstrate exactly how partisan the BOIE is right now. We've made previous complaints that have not been investigated about this tie-in to the Conservative Party-owned website that is part of this particular mail-out that's going out as we speak. Without putting words in your mouth, no matter how many times we complain, if the Conservative majority on the BOIE, with a Liberal ally, decides that this is not to be investigated, the House administration cannot investigate it.

Am I correct in that? Unless the BOIE says to the House administration, “Investigate something” or “Give us references on something”, the House administration can do nothing on its own. Am I correct on that?

[Mark G. Watters]

Mr. Chair, I can tell you, having been at a number of board meetings since my appointment here at the House in 2011, that every request for investigation that has gone to the board has been dealt with or is in the process of being dealt with. The board does those on a regular basis. There is no partisan selection on the investigation side. Every complaint that comes to the board, the board deals with, has dealt with, or is in the process of dealing with, as we speak.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

That would mean, then, that in this case, with the CPC caucus, the Conservative Party-owned website that is the front for the taxpayer-paid mailings that are quite vicious and personal and partisan, the BOIE would normally take a look at that if there was an agreement by the majority at the BOIE to look into this mailing.

[Mark G. Watters]

No, Mr. Chair, I can clarify that if a complaint is received at the board, it is investigated. The House administration, after consulting with the various service areas, prepares an analysis and a report to the board, and then the board deals with that report.

Again, for clarity, Mr. Chair, everything that comes to the board is investigated. It comes to a conclusion or is currently in the process of being investigated.

[Marc Bosc]

I would just add that there is no Conservative majority on the board. There are three Conservative members on it, two New Democrats, and one Liberal, and the Speaker is the chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

Mr. Lukiwski, go ahead for seven minutes, please.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Thank you.

I just want to correct the record, because, once again, my colleague Mr. Julian is either ignorantly or deliberately misleading the House. The CPC caucus does not own the website. The CRG, as a research arm, does. The caucus does not own that. Figure it out.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

You have the IP.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

CRG owns it.

Anyway, let's go back again if we can....

Let me ask a question, Chair. Are we going for another full seven-minute round?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'm sorry—I should have announced at the beginning that we would just extend the meeting by the amount that we missed for the votes, so consider us here until 20 after. We'll just carry on.

Mr. Lukiwski.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Again for clarification and for the benefit of our guests, are they here for an hour or the full two hours?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

No, we are saving some time at the end for committee business. There are a couple of motions before the committee that may very well be brought forward tonight, so I am saving some time for those.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Thank you.

Again, for the benefit of the committee, could you just let us know how much time we have left for questioning before—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We'll finish the meeting at about 7:20, so let's say at about 7:10 we'll go to committee business.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

That's okay, if that's enough time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I meant 8:10. I'm sorry; I'm on Central time right now.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

All right.

I have to go back again to this business of outside mailings.

Had you confirmed to this committee that it would be appropriate and beneficial to the committee to have someone from House of Commons print services come in to answer questions that I've raised before, or are you gentlemen in a position to answer any of the questions I may have?

I know you've answered a couple, which I appreciate very much. You've stated that you would be able to find the information as to how many outside mailings had been vetted through House administration. But would we be able to get some more information, which you might not possess yourselves, from someone who is in the print services?

[Marc Bosc]

We can try to get whatever information the committee is looking for in terms of printing statistics. We could do that in any number of ways, administratively or any way the committee wishes.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Okay.

Getting back to the outside printing, then. Have you, in your analysis and investigation, been able to determine with any certainty how many mailings were actually sent out in franked envelopes? In other words, you said you didn't see the mailings. You didn't know what was in the franked envelopes.

For example, how many franked envelopes did the NDP request, if they put in a request for them? The figure we've heard is that roughly 1.8 million to two million mailings went out across Canada. Can you give this committee some assurance, with any certainty, that those are all that were sent out, or could there potentially have been more that we're not aware of?

[Mark G. Watters]

Mr. Chair, I can confirm that we acted based on the information we had. In answer to the question from the member, if we don't have the information or we've not been made aware of any other mailings, then we haven't been able to act or make a recommendation to the board based on mailings that we're not aware of. We provided information to the board based on what we knew and not on what might possibly be out there, if you wish.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

In the conduct of your investigation, then, can you confirm whether you requested from the NDP copies of all of their mailings?

[Marc Bosc]

For fear of making a mistake with regard to our oath, could you repeat the question so we grasp it properly?