Evidence of meeting #103 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon
Stéphane Perrault  Nominee for the position of Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual

May 22nd, 2018 / 11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Good morning. Welcome back after the constituency week.

I want to remind people that tomorrow evening we have an official meeting—it's only half an hour—from 6:45 to 7:15 with Australia, with the clerk of the Legislative Assembly of the Northern Territory. It's in the Wellington Building. I think there are private member votes, so it will be right after the votes. We have to go to the Wellington Building because it's a video conference with Australia. It is a regular, official meeting. You're going to get the report tomorrow on the official aboriginal languages, so we could discuss it on Thursday, potentially.

11 a.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Just on that point, I thought when it was brought up that it was “those who are interested” could attend. Is it an actual meeting, or is it just for interest's sake for those who are curious to hear?

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

He mentioned that what we'd discuss at that meeting was just for those interested before.

Can you comment, Mr. Clerk?

11 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Andrew Lauzon

Sorry, I missed the question.

11 a.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

I will attend if there's a possibility for motions and whatnot, but if it's just for interest's sake, I don't know that it adds anything to the report. If it's a regular meeting, I will be in attendance. If not....

11 a.m.

The Clerk

As it stands, it is a regular meeting. However, there are provisions. There was a routine motion adopted by the committee to allow it to take evidence with a reduced quorum. A reduced quorum is three, provided that there is one member of the opposition and one member of the government present. If the committee agrees that it's just to take evidence from the witness, then those reduced quorum provisions would apply and no decisions could be taken unless there were quorum, but it would still be an official meeting.

11 a.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Does the committee agree to that?

11 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Those will be the rules for that meeting tomorrow.

11 a.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Welcome to meeting number 103 of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. This meeting is being televised. Pursuant to Standing Order 111.1(1), the committee is considering the proposed appointment of Stéphane Perrault to the position of Chief Electoral Officer.

For members' information, the Chief Electoral Officer is appointed by the resolution of the House of Commons to hold office during good behaviour for a term of 10 years. The Standing Orders provide that no later than the expiry of a 30-day period following the tabling of the nomination in the House, which was May 8, a notice of motion to ratify the appointment will be put under routine proceedings on the Order Paper.

We are happy to be joined today by Mr. Perrault, who is no stranger to this committee.

You've been here many times. Thank you.

He has appeared on behalf of Elections Canada on numerous occasions and in various capacities since 2007. Since December 2016, he has been the acting Chief Electoral Officer.

Mr. Perrault, welcome back. You can now proceed with your opening comments.

11 a.m.

Stéphane Perrault Nominee for the position of Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As you might imagine, it is a great honour and privilege to be here today before members of this committee.

The Chief Electoral Officer of Canada plays a role that is critical for the functioning of our electoral democracy and that comes with important responsibilities.

In the few minutes that I have, I would like to inform members of how I would intend to discharge those responsibilities, should this committee and the House of Commons decide to appoint me to that position.

Before I do so, however, I believe that it is appropriate to say a few words about my background and qualifications.

I was born and grew up in Montreal, but have spent my professional life in the Ottawa region where I raised my family. I am a lawyer by profession but, above all, I am a career public servant. I have worked in the federal public service for over 20 years, first in the Department of Justice and the Privy Council Office, and then at Elections Canada, where I have been for more than 10 years.

Throughout my career, I have been motivated by the opportunity to contribute to the public service and, in particular, Canada's outstanding institutions.

I admire above all respect for others and dedication—and believe that professional success is measured by the ability to contribute to and support performing and collaborative teams.

Throughout my 20 years in the public service, I have been involved in matters related to our electoral process, including in my work at the Department of Justice and at the Privy Council Office. As you know, I have also been acting Chief Electoral Officer for the last 18 months and have been active in preparing the agency for the next general election.

I would like to share my thoughts on how I see the role of the Chief Electoral Officer in supporting our electoral democracy.

It is the responsibility of the Chief Electoral Officer to oversee an inclusive and trusted electoral process that meets the evolving needs and expectations of Canadians. Our electoral process has endured the test of time and is highly regarded around the world, yet there are clear signs that adjustments are required.

Canadians are changing their voting habits. They expect and take advantage of flexible service options. Of the 17 million Canadians who voted at the last general election, four and a half million voted before polling day, which is an increase of over 100% from the previous election. That trend will continue as we move towards the next general election. We see it provincially and internationally. Of those who voted last fall in New Zealand, 47% voted before polling day. In order to meet the changing expectations of voters, we need to modernize our process and adjust it to the evolving reality.

As you know, I have been leading the agency in its work to improve services at the polls, through the use of electronic poll books as well as in the redesign of record-keeping procedures. These changes will allow us to speed up service to voters, in particular at advance polls, while ensuring the integrity of the process by improving record-keeping.

An equally important part of the Chief Electoral Officer's responsibilities is ensuring that the vote is inclusive. Electoral democracy is a promise of equality. It is the promise that all citizens, whatever their circumstances or condition, will have the same right and opportunity to select their representative. The quality of our electoral process has to be measured to a large extent by its inclusiveness.

While legal barriers to voting have been gradually removed, exercising the right to vote remains a challenge for some Canadians. When advising Parliament on new rules or designing services and procedures, the Chief Electoral Officer must be able to look at them not only through the eyes of the many, but also through the eyes of the few for whom voting may be a challenge: seniors, those who live in care facilities, new voters, voters with disabilities, voters in remote areas, and indigenous voters.

One of the roles of the Chief Electoral Officer is to actively engage these electors and to consult them on their voting needs and experiences at the polls. In recent years, Elections Canada has set up an advisory group on disability issues, and that has been of tremendous value. However, we need to do more.

A few weeks ago, Elections Canada held what we called a “demo day” with various stakeholder communities, to look at some of our changes in services and products for the next election. I invited political parties, new Canadians, youth, indigenous Canadians, and representatives of disability groups to tell us their perceptions of these changes and what further improvements we could make. This past year, we also set up an ad hoc panel of teachers to hear from them on how we could improve the tools we provide schools in support of civic education. A consultative approach with end-users helps to ensure that our products and services are inclusive and meet their needs.

Another critical role for the Chief Electoral Officer is to preserve trust in the integrity of the electoral process. That has always been an important aspect of the mandate, but it is increasingly important today, with growing concerns around disinformation, foreign influence, and cyber-threats.

This is why over the last 18 months, I have been investing considerable effort in upgrading and renewing Elections Canada's IT infrastructure. With the support of government security partners, we have redesigned our database architecture, renewed aging software, and are in the process of migrating to a new and more secure data centre. However, these are not one-time efforts. Technologies evolve, and systems rust out and become vulnerable to new threats. Elections Canada must continue to renew its systems on an ongoing basis, and to do so must improve its capacity to work across electoral cycles and not just from one election to another.

A final aspect of the mandate of the Chief Electoral Officer that I would like to highlight relates to the importance of ensuring a predictable regulatory environment for parties and candidates.

As members are well aware, elections are by nature highly competitive and require a robust regulatory framework that ensures their fairness. However, competing parties and candidates require, above all, clarity and predictability as to the rules and how they will be applied to them and to their opponents. Training for parties, for official agents, as well as for other participants is critical and must be the cornerstone of Elections Canada's regulatory function.

Where the law is grey, it is the role of the Chief Electoral Officer to bring clarity. Disagreements on matters of interpretation are unavoidable, but Elections Canada needs to be clear and predictable. This is not always easy. The regime is sometimes complex, as members know, and predictability is often in the eyes of the beholder.

However, there are critical success factors. The first is transparency. As an agency, we cannot be predictable if we are not transparent. We need to explain why we take a particular position and, if at some point in time we feel compelled to change that position moving forward, we need to say on what basis and explain the consequences for participants.

The second is sustained engagement with regulatory stakeholders. We cannot be predictable if we work in isolation. Predictability requires a healthy regulatory relationship. We need to understand the realities and activities of parties and candidates and be able to discuss them in a relationship based on trust and mutual respect. This is an area where I believe Elections Canada, with the support of political parties, has made much progress. However, efforts must be sustained for progress to continue.

Should the committee and the House grant me their trust in appointing me to the position of Chief Electoral Officer, I will endeavour to preserve that trust by adhering to the highest standards of integrity and neutrality, and I will continue to work with parties and with parliamentarians to support and improve our electoral democracy.

Thank you.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you very much.

We've really appreciated the work you've done for us to date, and now we'll go to Mr. Simms for a round of questioning.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Mr. Perrault, thank you very much, and thank you for your services over the past 18 months since you've been doing this. That's quite something.

I like what you said earlier: you can't be predictable if we work in isolation. In saying that, boy, we spent a lot of time going through recommendations as put forward by the CEO, and this is obviously a regular event, which is a fantastic exercise between Parliament and your office.

I know we've included 85% of the recent recommendations within that report in the impending legislation, Bill C-76. Very simply, off the top, how are we on these recommendations right now in your mind, now that you're embarking on this new permanent, full-time position? Where are we when it comes to the recommendations brought forward by this committee?

11:10 a.m.

Nominee for the position of Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual

Stéphane Perrault

Certainly it has been a very productive year in working with the recommendations report with this committee. We're very happy to see much of the recommendations unanimously endorsed by this committee. I think that goes a long way toward the credibility of our electoral process, and many of them were also endorsed by the government.

I think working collaboratively with this committee on a recommendations report is important. I think one area where we've improved over the years is working with the parties. I'm referring in particular to the process for guidelines and interpretation notes that was introduced in 2014. That has created the window of opportunity to do the kind of work we've done with this committee outside the House, with the parties, in understanding the regulatory framework.

I think in both instances the collaborative nature of the work helps build a robust and trusted electoral process.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

In particular, what are you working on as a short-term goal right now that are some of our recommendations?

11:10 a.m.

Nominee for the position of Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual

Stéphane Perrault

Of course we're thrilled to see the bill has now been introduced. I was concerned before I appeared before this committee on the main estimates that we did not have a bill then. We do have a bill now. We are refining an implementation plan for that bill. We will begin work on that over the summer.

We are at a point where, whether or not it's passed, we have to work on different scenarios, so we have to be ready to roll out an election based on the current legal framework, and we also have to start preparing for an alternative framework. Over the course of the summer we will work on new manuals and training modules. As I said when I was here before this committee, on September 1 we're doing integrated testing of our IT systems. Once those systems are solidified we can start looking at changes that relate to Bill C-76.

We will be working at implementation as the bill progresses through this House and through the other House, and if adjustments need to be made, then we'll be making them along the way.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

You put a lot of emphasis on the training of officers involved in the election. I wholeheartedly agree, especially when you have so many ridings across the country, and you have 335 of them in those positions. Are you confident about the IT training going ahead right now, and the method of training you're doing for the people coming up for the next election, especially the new ones?

11:15 a.m.

Nominee for the position of Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual

Stéphane Perrault

We've begun training our returning officers for the next election. They're aware of our recommendations. One of the things we've worked on with returning officers is building more of what we call a one-team culture. It used to be, largely I think for historical reasons because these were Governor in Council appointees, that there was a gap between what we call the field returning officers and Elections Canada.

Now we work in a much more integrated way, so they are part of the team. They've been involved in the transformation of projects. They're aware of the legislation. They're aware of where we want to go, and so there's much greater cohesion. I'm confident they will be supporting us well for the next election.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Of course, with the recommendations that we discussed here, that should make it easier for the transition when you do the training. I realize that.

Very quickly, I would be deeply regretful if I didn't pass on my experience with remote areas. I live in a rural area, as you know. I've mentioned it several times. One of the keys of rural areas is that we're a transient crew. A lot of us work in transient ways, which is to go away for two weeks, come home for two weeks, that sort of thing. There's a lot of volatility around a month period or certainly around the writ period. Because I've been here for a while, one of the improvements over the past couple of elections has been allowing one or two of those offices to stay open during the entire writ period so that people can vote whenever they wish. Maybe you could expand that in rural and remote areas. Perhaps you would like to comment on that.

11:15 a.m.

Nominee for the position of Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual

Stéphane Perrault

Sure. Apart from the 338 returning officers, we have about 150 additional what we call satellite returning officers. This is because some ridings in Canada are, as you know, very, very large, and it's not possible to properly service voters from one location. Therefore, we have multiple offices in the larger ridings, and that is something we will continue, of course.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

Thank you very much.

Just finally, in the last session of Parliament, when we were going through the “Fair” Elections Act, one of the things that was talked about was.... There was a huge argument as to what the role of Elections Canada is when it comes to engaging the public. On one side of the argument, your only role is to say to people when and where to vote for all 338 ridings. On the other side, we were saying it was public engagement to encourage the exercise of democracy for young people, for indigenous people, for rural areas.

What do you see in this role of yours as to the way Elections Canada can best engage with the public?

11:15 a.m.

Nominee for the position of Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual

Stéphane Perrault

Assuming the law is changed, of course.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL

I always assume laws will change, sir.

11:15 a.m.

Nominee for the position of Chief Electoral Officer, As an Individual

Stéphane Perrault

I think it's a bit of both, to be quite frank. I think the debate was more one of principle than one of practical concerns in the sense that I certainly see that during the writ period, our role is to inform voters about where, when, and how to register and vote and to make sure they have the correct information.

Motivating voters during that period is a tricky thing. It's hard to motivate without touching upon issues, and that is something for parties and candidates to do. It's not our role to define the hot-button issues for the election, the ones that trigger participation. So during the writ period, our role is to inform about where, when, and how to register and vote.

When you look at it more broadly, what we found unfortunate with the current legislation is that when you're engaging youth, for example, and you're speaking to groups that straddle the line, in CEGEP, for example, in Quebec, between 17- and 18-year-olds, you're not supposed to talk about the importance of voting to young voters just because they're 18-year-olds.

I think that's a bit unfortunate. I think we do have a role to play to educate the population, especially youth, outside of the election period about the importance of our democratic institutions and about the importance of voting. However, when the writs are issued, then our role shifts, and our role is to inform voters about their voting options.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Simms.

Now we'll go on to Mr. Richards.