Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 28th, 2018

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

I don't have that information in front of me, but the Canadian Armed Forces currently has about 13 ongoing operations around the world. As I said, the context in which Canadian Forces members serve varies a lot. They can be serving in a multinational operation where there will be hundreds of them together and they could be serving by themselves as an agent in an embassy, for example.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

What consultations, if any, were undertaken with the Canadian Armed Forces?

[LCdr Jean-François Morin]

There were several consultations held. In his report following the 2015 general election, the Chief Electoral Officer recommended that the special voting rules applicable to Canadian Forces members be reviewed given their age. This committee accepted this recommendation in principle, so there were consultations between Elections Canada and the Canadian Forces for about six months, which led the Chief Electoral Officer to table supplementary recommendations before this committee in June 2017. Following June 2017, the Canadian Forces have been collaborating with the Government of Canada to make sure the amendments included in Bill C-76 would be reflecting concerns of flexibility, but also operational security, for example.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you.

Now we'll go to Ms. Vecchio.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Thanks for having me today.

I was going through some of the information regarding the AMP. Looking at that information with this new system, it has to do with the financial administration.

Can you broaden that a little bit? I'm looking at some of the things and it's basically taking it from being what you would see as a crime, where someone could be convicted, to imposing fines, and the fines are quite small, I find, as well. Can you give me a threshold on what you would expect? Let's say somebody over-contributed or an MP or a candidate put in $50,000 into their campaign, yet their limit is only $5,000, can you tell me exactly what would happen in a situation like that?

[Allen Sutherland]

The short answer is no, I can't, because the commissioner of Canada elections would be the one who would determine it.

On the over-contributions, that's an exception to the AMPs rule. That's a different scenario. For the others, you're quite right that administrative monetary penalties are intended to be small. They're intended to deal with small things that aren't worth going through the formal court system, with a lot of waste of both time and resources. I think the maximum is $1,500 for an individual and $5,000 for a group.

It's important to note that there is an ability to contest the AMP if required, but it's a proportionate response and the intention is to try to make it so you end the bad behaviour.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Can you give me the definition of a group, then? Since many of the contributions are coming from individuals, what would be identified as a group if you're talking about a $5,000 limit? What would a group be and why?

[Manon Paquet]

A political party, for example, would be an entity.

[Allen Sutherland]

Riding associations.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Okay, so, transferring from one EDA to another EDA, that kind of stuff would be at max.

[Manon Paquet]

Maybe to add to the over-contribution issue.... It could fall under administrative monetary penalty, but the limit of the penalty is higher. It could be double the amount of the over-contribution or the contribution that was not allowed.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

It's not just for over-contributions. It's also for overspending, correct? It also takes that in. Let's say somebody has $80,000 during the writ and spends $90,000. You're looking at there not being criminal charges any longer. You're looking at putting this down to a monetary value.

[Manon Paquet]

It would be one or the other. The commissioner would still have the option to prosecute.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Changing the whole line here, I want to go back to the third party spending. In 2015, how many third party organizations were registered with Elections Canada?

[Allen Sutherland]

Oh, I knew that....

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

You knew that was coming.

I think Wikipedia says 55, but I could be crazy.

[Allen Sutherland]

Yes, there are a lot.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

There are a lot. Yes.

[Allen Sutherland]

There are a lot, and there are a lot of small ones. The average third party spends about eight and a half thousand dollars.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

What would the number be if we're looking at a large scale? In 2015, I know that there were some very large—

[Allen Sutherland]

That number I do remember. There were 19 that spent over $100,000.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Did any of them hit the...? I think a political party at a national level can give.... Is it $21 million approximately? How much are they able to give?

[Allen Sutherland]

It depends year to year. Did any of the third parties hit that? They most certainly did not.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

They didn't hit that.

[Allen Sutherland]

Not at all.