Evidence of meeting #112 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was third.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Vivian Krause  Researcher and Writer, As an Individual
Gary Rozon  Auditor, Gary Rozon CMA Inc., As an Individual
Anna Di Carlo  National Leader, National Headquarters, Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada
Talis Brauns  Mediation Officer, Marijuana Party
Marc Chénier  General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon
John Turmel  As an Individual
Brian Marlatt  Communications and Policy Director, Progressive Canadian Party

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

That's right.

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

That's interesting because one of the concerns we have is this dark money, foreign influence, and the relatively low obligations of the social media companies, which I would argue are at least as influential as, if not more influential than, traditional media in determining opinions, the use of algorithms, and data mining, which is a thing.

How would things have been different under the investigations you ran in the past, say the robocall scandal, if you had had the ability to compel testimony?

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

I think it probably could have helped.

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

For sure.

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

We do get results. In the robocall case, there was a charge laid. Somebody was convicted.

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

It was difficult wasn't it?

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

Yes, it was.

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Being able to pull the information and find out how databases were acquired.

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

Absolutely, yes.

If I may give you another example, there was the Charbonneau commission in Quebec, which looked at political contributions that were made through a straw person.

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Yes.

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

They got results really quickly.

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

They are under different rules in Quebec than the rules that you have available to you.

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

That's right. They have the power to compel in Quebec.

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

If you compare the two cases in terms of expediency and in terms of results, you would argue the laws in Quebec that allowed the requirement of testimony...contrast that to the very long—I would say quite drawn out—case with Pierre Poutine and all the rest.

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

Yes. That's right.

Our investigations take their time because people might not co-operate.

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Are you comfortable with the amount of privacy or the lack of privacy requirements that political parties have right now in terms of our own information that we've gathered on Canadians, and how secure the information is?

The fact that we don't require consent of Canadians...we are not required to inform Canadians about what information of theirs we have.

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

That issue, I guess, is really beyond the scope of our mandate.

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

The reason I ask it is—I realize it might be a scope issue—that when you go through investigations, the protection of data and how data is managed within the parties becomes very relevant to your investigations.

Is that fair to say?

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

Yes, that's true. There are ways for us to preserve data. We can ask the court for a preservation order to force—

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

You can only preserve it if it's there, though.

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

You can only preserve it if it's still there.

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

That's true, yes.

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

It's very difficult to preserve data when you don't know how it's used or where it's stored. I believe parties can right now store data out of the country in servers, under Canadian law, which I suspect would present a problem for you because then you would need to get orders to go into that other country to get at the servers. Am I following it properly?

7:55 p.m.

General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections

Marc Chénier

That would be the case, unless there were somebody physically present in Canada who was in control of the information and whom we could serve with—