Evidence of meeting #112 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was third.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Vivian Krause  Researcher and Writer, As an Individual
Gary Rozon  Auditor, Gary Rozon CMA Inc., As an Individual
Anna Di Carlo  National Leader, National Headquarters, Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada
Talis Brauns  Mediation Officer, Marijuana Party
Marc Chénier  General Counsel and Senior Director, Legal Services, Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon
John Turmel  As an Individual
Brian Marlatt  Communications and Policy Director, Progressive Canadian Party

7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

I think the point you're making as well, if I'm not mistaken, is that it wasn't done to try to do anything that would be beneficial or helpful to Canada or Canadians or any group of Canadians, for that matter, but it was simply for the benefit of outside interests.

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

Vivian Krause

Yes, it was to defeat the politicians who were in favour of breaking the U.S. monopoly on our oil. That was the reason there was this U.S.-funded involvement in the 2015 federal election.

7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

I don't have a lot of time left now, but we'll start on it and we can always continue.

You mentioned proposed new section 282.4. That's something I think we should take very seriously and have a look at. We appreciate your raising that with us. What else needs to be changed in order to properly deal with this threat?

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

Vivian Krause

I've given that a lot of thought, and I really struggle to give you an easy answer. I don't think there is one. One thing strikes me, and this is quite different from anything that is currently mentioned in the act. I think a question we need to ask ourselves as Canadians is if we agree that it should be legal, lawful, for Canadians to assist, to support the campaign of a foreign country to harm our own country, or in fact, whether that is something that we want to make illegal. Should it be legal or illegal for Canadians to hurt the economy of our own country to the benefit of another country? That's a muddier question.

If we're okay with that being lawful, then we have nothing to do, but if we're not okay with that, then we have some serious work to do.

7:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you very much.

Mr. Cullen.

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

Do you mean for a Canadian to hurt the economy for other Canadians, like a bitumen spill on the west coast would hurt the Canadian economy probably for other Canadians?

You used to work in the farmed salmon industry, right?

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

Vivian Krause

Yes, I have, 15 years ago.

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

You clearly care about salmon.

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

Vivian Krause

Wild salmon in particular, yes, I do.

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

That would hurt the Canadian economy, wouldn't it? If, say, somebody advocated from outside of Canada to water down Canadian environmental laws, pipeline regulations, for example, that would be a threat to the Canadian economy, certainly the B.C. economy, wouldn't it?

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

Vivian Krause

No, I think that's quite a different issue.

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

It is? So weakening Canadian environmental laws set to protect things like wild salmon—

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

Vivian Krause

No, hang on. Environmental laws are not an industry. They're the regulation of an industry. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

No. You said we should make it against the law for anyone to help a Canadian do something that would hurt the economy for other Canadians. If somebody advocated with, say, foreign money to weaken Canadian environmental regulations that would put the Canadian economy at greater risk, that would be doing exactly what you just said.

June 6th, 2018 / 7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

Vivian Krause

Sir, weakening regulations is not an industry.

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I know it's not. The oil industry is an industry.

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

You've done investigations mostly about so-called progressive groups or left-wing groups. Is that right?

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

Vivian Krause

I've also looked into many, all of the right-wing think tanks.

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Are you okay with their receiving foreign funds?

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

Vivian Krause

I think no matter whether...if it's foreign funding, whether it's in industry or in the charitable sector, no matter what point in the political spectrum it's on, it should be disclosed.

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

So you're okay with right-wing think tanks receiving money if it's disclosed?

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual

Vivian Krause

I'm actually okay with left-wing think tanks receiving money too, but it should be disclosed. The same rules should apply to everyone, no matter where you fall on the political spectrum.

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

You said you're not funded by industry.

7:05 p.m.

Researcher and Writer, As an Individual