Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 19th, 2019

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Good morning, everyone. Welcome back after constituency week. Welcome to the 142nd meeting of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. This meeting is being televised.

Our first order of business today is the consideration of the votes of the interim estimates 2019-20 for the House of Commons and the Parliamentary Protective Service.

We are pleased to be joined by the Honourable Geoff Regan, Speaker of the House of Commons. Accompanying the Speaker from the House of Commons are Charles Robert, Clerk of the House; Michel Patrice, deputy clerk, administration; and Daniel Paquette, chief financial officer.

Also, from the Parliamentary Protective Service, we welcome Superintendent Marie-Claude Côté, interim director; and Robert Graham, administration and personnel officer.

Thank you all for being here. I will now turn the floor over to you, Mr. Speaker, for your opening statement.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Speaker of the House of Commons]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and committee members. Thank you for welcoming us here today.

I am pleased to be here to present the 2019-20 interim estimates and to address the funding required to maintain and enhance the House Administration's support to members of Parliament and the institution.

I am joined today by members of the House Administration's executive management team, who you know well: Charles Robert, clerk of the House of Commons; Michel Patrice, deputy clerk, Administration; and Daniel Paquette, chief financial officer.

I will also be presenting the interim estimates for the Parliamentary Protective Service. Therefore, I am also accompanied by Marie-Claude Côté, acting director of PPS, and Robert Graham, the service's Administration and Personnel Officer.

The interim estimates for 2019-20 include an overview of spending requirements for the first three months of the fiscal year, with a comparison to the 2018-19 estimates, as well as the proposed schedules for the first appropriation bill.

The interim estimates of the House of Commons, as tabled in the House, total approximately $87.5 million and represent three-twelfths of the total voted authorities that will be included in the upcoming 2019-20 main estimates. Once the main estimates are tabled in the House, I anticipate that we will meet again in the spring, at which time I will provide an overview of the year-over-year changes.

Today, I'll give you a brief overview of the House of Commons' main priorities.

Ensuring that members and House officers have the services and resources to meet their needs is essential in supporting them in the fulfillment of their parliamentary functions.

By the way, Mr. Chairman, I will of course try to speak at a rate where it's possible for the interpreters to interpret, because we all appreciate the wonderful work they do, and I don't wish to make it more difficult.

The House Administration's top priority is to support members in their work as parliamentarians by focusing on service-delivery excellence and ongoing modernization. As an example, this past year, we have seen the opening of four multidisciplinary Source plus service centres, which are ready to provide members and their staff with in-person support.

A team of House of Commons employees is available to provide assistance related to finance, human resources, information technology and various operational services offered by the House Administration. If members ever have any comments about this, I would be very interested in hearing them.

Another service-delivery initiative has been the implementation of a standardized approach for computer and printing equipment in constituency offices across the country. This initiative was launched as a pilot project this year. Its purpose is threefold: to ensure parity between Hill and constituency computing services; to enhance IT support and security; and to simplify purchasing and life-cycling of equipment in the constituency offices.

In addition, all constituency offices will now be provided with a complete set of standard computer devices and applications following the next general election.

The House administration aims to provide innovative, effective, accountable and non-partisan support to members. To do so, it must attract and retain an engaged, qualified and productive workforce that acts responsibly and with integrity.

Cost-of-living increases are essential to recruitment efforts for members, House officers and the House administration as employers, and funding for these increases is accounted for in the estimates.

Members will know that employee support programs are also a priority. These programs, which are offered to employees of members, House officers, research offices and the administration, include an employee and family assistance program and other resources and events, such as those taking place this February for Wellness Month.

The renewal of our physical spaces and the services provided within them is another priority for the House administration.

The opening of West Block and the visitor welcome centre is the most significant change to date to the parliamentary precinct. We believe that West Block is a model to other parliaments tackling similar challenges with respect to aging facilities. In fact, I know many of you are aware that, at Westminster, they're planning to move out and have a major renovation to the Palace of Westminster, which of course is an immense undertaking. That will be a few years away still.

The House of Commons works closely with its parliamentary partners and with Public Services and Procurement Canada in support of the long-term vision and plan.

For the coming years, the focus will be on decommissioning and restoring Centre Block. We will also continue to review and update the House of Commons' requirements and guiding principles for future renovations to the parliamentary precinct. The administration of the House of Commons will continue to look at ways to best engage members in the Centre Block project moving forward and to ensure they continue to be part of discussions on the design and operational requirements for that building.

An ongoing priority is the operation, support, maintenance and life-cycle management of equipment and connectivity elements in all buildings. This work is essential to providing a mobile work environment for members and the administration, which is something that we all, of course, now expect.

I now turn to the interim estimates for the Parliamentary Protective Service. The Parliamentary Protective Service is requesting access to $28 million in these interim estimates.

The funding requirements align with the four key strategic priorities of the service: protective operational excellence; engaged and healthy employees; balanced security and access; and sound stewardship.

The majority of the PPS annual budget is attributed to its first priority, protective operational excellence, which includes personnel salaries and overtime costs.

In keeping with the service's aim to allocate existing resources as judiciously as possible, several posts were added to the overall security posture in response to the opening of the interim accommodations. I would suggest that, if members have any questions with respect to the security posture, the committee may wish to go in camera for that exchange.

The service recently reclassified the positions of all protection officers, which led to an increase in their salaries retroactive to April 1, 2018.

PPS has also successfully reached a bargaining agreement with the Senate Protective Service Employees Association and an extension of the previous agreement with the Public Service Alliance of Canada. For this reason, funding has been earmarked to make payments for retroactive economic increases as a result of these negotiations.

As PPS evolves, the service is gradually reducing the presence of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in certain areas on Parliament Hill and within the parliamentary precinct and, in turn, increasing the resources and presence of PPS officers.

The remainder of the PPS budget ensures that the administration, which supports the operations of the service, is adequately equipped and resourced. This means ensuring that security assets and technology are properly managed and that employees are continuously supported in their health and well-being. As PPS approaches its fourth anniversary this June, its administration is becoming more agile and responsive to the needs of Parliament and of its own workforce.

Mr. Chair, this concludes my overview of the 2019-20 interim estimates for the House of Commons and Parliamentary Protective Service.

My officials and I would be pleased to answer any questions from members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Graham, you may go ahead.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Speaker, every time you come here, you apologize for the speed at which you speak, and I keep looking around and feeling all these eyes looking at me.

Ms. Côté, you are the fourth interim director of the PPS since it was established. There have been many conflicts with the unions, all of which were based on an application to the Labour Relations and Employment Board, a response to which is still outstanding.

Do you have a new vision that could bring peace to the PPS?

[Superintendent Marie-Claude Côté, Interim Director, Parliamentary Protective Service]

Thank you for your question.

I would first like to thank the chair

for welcoming me today to my first committee appearance, and also the Speaker for his support.

My vision is the same as my predecessor's. We always want to work in harmony with our employees. That is what my goal will be as the interim director.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

As you probably have seen in the last few years, my primary concern is that when PPS was created after the October 22 shooting, it brought in an element of the security reporting to the executive branch. There's an element of that. By virtue of being an RCMP officer under the definition of the RCMP Act, you report by necessity to the commissioner. For me, that is a long-term concern in terms of protecting the democracy of this country.

Here's what I'd like to know, from both the Speaker and PPS. Is there a long-term desire to keep the RCMP directly involved on the Hill in this capacity? Is that the objective in the long term, or would you like to see a different approach?

[Supt Marie-Claude Côté]

According to the legislation, I report to the Speaker; however, when it comes to operations, I report to the commissioner of the RCMP. That's, of course, how it has been done. In terms of changing anything like that, it's not for me to change the legislation.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

It's a matter for Parliament to determine how that should operate. Obviously, as the Speaker, I will live—quite happily, of course—with whatever Parliament decides in that regard.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That's fair.

Do you find that you have the authority you need over PPS in your capacity as Speaker?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I would say that I find that, when I raise concerns with PPS, I get swift action, and that they work hard to try to make any improvement that members feel is necessary. I haven't felt a problem with that. I appreciate very much the co-operation of the superintendent, as well as her predecessor, who is now, of course, head of the RCMP in Manitoba, for which we congratulate her.

As I say, I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on what Parliament ought to decide in terms of legislation. If Parliament decides to pass new legislation—if a future or current government decides to bring in legislation to change the act so that the PPS is not headed by a member of the RCMP—that's a matter for Parliament, and I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on something like that.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That's fair.

You mentioned in your opening remarks that you would invite us to go in camera at some point to discuss some operational matters. With the consent of my colleagues, I'd like to do that later on in the questioning. There are some questions I'd like to ask that are more appropriate in that vein. In the interim, I do have a couple more for you.

Ms. Côté, I've suggested to your predecessor in the past that RCMP units that are assigned to PPS, division 4, support some form of identification to show that they are PPS, to help with the force cohesion. I know that's difficult with the RCMP uniform, but are there any efforts to look at possibilities of adding the PPS insignia or a PPS unit pin of some sort to show that the RCMP officers assigned to the Hill are part of PPS?

[Supt Marie-Claude Côté]

That could be a possibility. It's not something we are looking at right now, because they're still employed by the RCMP, so this is why we have two different uniforms. The easiest way to see it is as a contract—we're being contracted to work on the Hill—so it could be a possibility.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

You will recall that one of us said that we have seen already and will continue to see a reduction in the number of RCMP personnel on the Hill, and therefore people will be replaced by members of PPS.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

My privilege concern on that one is that there are any members of the RCMP, who necessarily report to the commissioner. That goes to the minister, which is a separate type of—

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

I understand your concern.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I have one last question on PPS, before I go on to discuss this beautiful new building we're in. The PPS budget is about $90 million a year, about 20% of the entire House budget, as compared to Gatineau, in which police and fire together are about $109 million for the entire kit.

How does this compare to what it cost prior to amalgamation? Are we getting our money's worth from it, just very directly?

[Supt Marie-Claude Côté]

We use our resources effectively, and we use different strategies to ensure that we optimize them and that we deploy them to always ensure that the House can go on with its business and that we also do our protective mandate so that everybody feels safe.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

In the last few seconds I have.... Have we had any difficulties with establishing security in this new building, while still having officers assigned to Centre Block, for example? We expanded fairly quickly the footprint that we need to cover.

[Supt Marie-Claude Côté]

On that, we made the request for the main estimates in order to be able to accommodate the new buildings. We're pleased with what we have right now, and we utilize those resources as we need—

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

As I understand it, there is less requirement for security in Centre Block because members of Parliament and visitors to Parliament Hill and employees aren't over there. It's primarily going to be Public Services and Procurement Canada employees and the contractors who are there, so it's not the same requirement, although after the small leak we had, as you may recall, the cabinet was meeting there for a period of time, so that required some personnel there during that relatively short period.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

It is appropriate under the circumstances to differentiate between the small leak and the large leak that's on everybody's mind, so I appreciate that point of distinction.

I had a series of questions, which I gave to you, Mr. Speaker, but just before I start going down that road I wanted to say that I thought Mr. Graham had a thoughtful comment with regard to the idea of separate insignia. With regard to contracting, of course the RCMP contracts with the provinces all the time, so I suspect there are some useful precedents we can look at that are at least partly relevant.

My questions are about the upcoming changes to Centre Block—which will presumably extend beyond the careers of most of the people in this room today—and how we can ensure ongoing oversight. I was hoping, Mr. Speaker, that I could ask you to give us a little bit of information about your role in that and about what you think our role should be.

The first question I had was this. Can you describe your role and the role of the Board of Internal Economy up to this point with regard to the governance and oversight of the parliamentary precinct renovations for West Block and projecting forward to those that will take place for Centre Block?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you very much.

First, I want to tell you basically how it works. Integrated multi-level governance has been established within the administration of Public Services and Procurement Canada and the parliamentary partners—us, and of course the Senate—to oversee the project. The Minister of Public Services and Procurement Canada is the official custodian of the parliamentary precinct buildings and grounds. Think of PSPC as the landlord, and we're the tenants.

In fact, the House of Commons will turn over or relinquish control of Centre Block to PSPC officially in a few months. They're already there working. We are still extracting some things that we require from that building to store or renovate, whatever. I think I've had good co-operation so far in terms of being able to express my views and ensure that the views of members are heard in relation to the renovation that will take place.

However, as I've stated before here, I think it's incumbent upon us as members, and in particular on this committee I would say, to continue to insist on being part of that process. I have not had any indication that there isn't a willingness and desire from PSPC or from the architects involved in the renewal to ensure that our concerns are heard and recognized in what is done over at Centre Block. There are architects in the House of Commons administration who are also involved and will continue to be involved. I am pleased there is this process, which I described at the beginning, of a joint management of that, involving the House of Commons administration and the Senate.

As I said, I think it's vital that we continue to insist on that, and that we insist on things like access for the media to members of Parliament, as they've had in the past in Centre Block, and access, of course, for the public as much as possible. We're all aware of the need to have protection, but also the need to have maximum access possible for members of the public, because we want this to continue to be a democracy.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Thank you.

I concur with your feelings about there being no desire to keep us out of the oversight capacity, nor would there logically be at this stage of the process of renovating Centre Block. We're early into that, so nobody's had the opportunity yet to make mistakes that they hope nobody will notice.

Here's a question. When funds are required for parliamentary precinct renovations, including for the remediation of such problems as will arise, to the best of your knowledge, does the spending authority come through the main and supplementary estimates for the House of Commons, or does it go through Public Services and Procurement Canada or some other process? Do they flow through you or the Board of Internal Economy?