Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 30th, 2019

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Fair enough, but my question was why this wasn't identified at the beginning when, I'm assuming, millions were spent to build it. Now we're having to come back a few years later and add $650,000 for video cameras, which sounds like sort of an obvious kind of thing if you're dealing with security.

Again, help me to understand why we're having to spend this money now as opposed to it not being built into the original planning.

[Supt Marie-Claude Côté]

When it comes to any security system, the technology changes very quickly and you need to adapt to those requirements. This is one of the reasons that right now we have some of the increased expenses in that sense. To stay in line with the requirement of the new technology we have to make some adjustments.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

If I can, Speaker, I'll go to you.

You raise these questions, but nobody is saying there was any kind of deficiency in the plan, the very question that I asked. There is no evidence of that. This is just new technology and an opportunity to up the game, and this is the cost of that. Is that correct?

Nobody anywhere in the system—because brown envelopes exist—said there was a screw-up at the beginning and now we're having to fix it. This is for legitimate add-on security features as a result of new, evolving technology. Is that correct?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

That is my understanding, but it reminds me a bit of the issue we had with some of the equipment to raise the bars and so forth and the bollards when they had to be replaced, and I thought it didn't seem that long since they were built and I was assured that the life expectancy of these was much shorter than I would have thought for this sort of equipment.

This is a different case because it's new technology that's required, but these are concerns that I certainly have front of mind as we have these discussions.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay. I'm satisfied.

I'll move along. I don't know if this is in the documents we had here, but it must be available because the researchers provided us with a chart. Now it's main estimates to main estimates, as opposed to actuals to main estimates, let alone actuals to actuals. There are some big number differences and I'd like to ask some questions.

In terms of rentals, the main estimates for 2018-19 were $75,000. I'm assuming this is thousands of dollars, I think. In the same category for 2019-20, it jumps to $500,000. Purchased repair and maintenance goes from $50,000 to $600,000. In professional and special services, it actually decreased, so that's a good thing. I want to be fair-minded.

I'm asking you about these two huge increases. For that matter, I'm just noticing that transportation and communication jumped from $100,000 to $350,000.

We have some huge increases in these three areas. Can you give me a little more detail as to why, please?

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

You're referring to PPS, I think.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes.

[Supt Marie-Claude Côté]

I'll ask Mr. Graham to answer this question since he's in charge of the budget.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay.

[Robert Graham]

Unfortunately, I don't have the details. I'd be happy to get back to you off-line.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Pardon?

[Robert Graham]

Sorry, I don't have the specifics of the rentals that you're requesting.

What's happening here is an increase in personnel costs and a decline in professional and special services. Mr. Christopherson, that is the transformation.... It's the evolution or reduction in RCMP services, because they're essentially a subcontract to the Parliamentary Protective Service, and an increase in PPS salaries.

As the number of PPS employees increases, there's a reduction of RCMP constables on the Hill. That's why you're seeing that increase in salary and the decrease in professional services.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I really didn't ask.... Well, I asked about services. I understand that. You're good at explaining why it went down. I want to know why some went up from $75,000 to $500,000 and from $50,000 to $600,000. These are big numbers and you're telling me you don't have any idea at this meeting about these numbers?

[Robert Graham]

One of the things is purchased repair and maintenance. That also reflects an increase in the PPS vehicle fleet. We've acquired some vehicles, which you see outside. They weren't part of our fleet in 2018-19. Those vehicles are part of the purchased repair and maintenance.

I just have to check my figures for the rentals, but I believe that is related to some Canada Day equipment rentals. I don't have those details right here.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That would suggest we're doing something hugely different for a Canada Day than we have in the past; otherwise, it would have been built into your base, as such, for that line item.

I'll accept that you don't have the exact details here, although I'm surprised you weren't prepared to answer questions like this, given that it's kind of obvious. Chair, I would ask that this supplementary information be provided to the committee as soon as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Yes, I was going to ask you to provide reasons for those two big increases to the committee later on, through the clerk.

[Robert Graham]

Absolutely.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Chair, in fairness, the rest of my time on the labour relations would best be done in camera.

I thank you, and I thank the Speaker.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Okay, that's fine. You've actually gone 30 seconds over time.

We'll have two minutes for Mr. Simms and then we will break for the vote.

Can you come back after the vote?

Okay.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

How long do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Two minutes.

Now it's a minute and 50 seconds. You'd better start.

[Scott Simms, Liberal, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Can we just wait until we come back? I don't want two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Okay. We'll come back after.

I'd just like to remind committee about the meeting tonight at 7:00 in this room.

There's a small budget to be adopted to pay for witness expenses for parallel debating chambers. It's a total of $2,950.

Do I have committee approval?

Thank you.

I have a quick question about indigenous languages. As we asked at the last meeting, it will be translated into Dene, Plains Cree, East Cree and Mohawk around the end of May. Would you like hard copies or can we just send it out by video?

My thought is that because some of the constituents we're dealing with may not be totally conversant electronically, it might be nice to have hard copies in those languages available for those indigenous groups, especially for those who speak those languages as a first language or as their only language.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

We will also need a copy for the archives.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

How many copies are needed? We need to tell the clerk how many copies to make of each.