Evidence of meeting #156 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commissioner.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Matthew Shea  Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Privy Council Office
Allen Sutherland  Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government and Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office
Andre Barnes  Committee Researcher

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Good morning. I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to the 156th meeting of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. This meeting is being televised.

Our first order of business today is consideration of the main estimates under the Leaders' Debates Commission.

We are pleased to have with us the Honourable Karina Gould, Minister of Democratic Institutions.

She is joined by officials from the Privy Council Office. They are Allen Sutherland, Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government and Democratic Institutions; and Matthew Shea, Assistant Deputy Minister of Corporate Services.

Thank you for being here. I'll now turn the floor over to the minister for her opening statement.

11:05 a.m.

Burlington Ontario

Liberal

Karina Gould LiberalMinister of Democratic Institutions

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the committee for inviting me back here today. I am pleased to be here to discuss the main estimates of 2019-20 for the independent Leaders' Debates Commission.

I am grateful to be joined by Mr. Al Sutherland, Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Machinery of Government and Democratic Institutions, as well as Mr. Matthew Shea, Assistant Deputy Minister for Corporate Services.

During my February 19 appearance before this committee, I reiterated the essential role that leaders' debates play in Canada's democracy, and I emphasized that such debates should be organized in a manner that puts the public interest first.

The commission is exercising its independence and impartiality in executing its primary mandate, which is to organize two leaders debates, one in each official language, in advance of the 2019 general election, and in related spending. Through these estimates, the commission is requesting $4.6 million to organize these debates.

The commission, led by the Right Honourable David Johnston, has established a small secretariat made up of Michel Cormier, Executive Director, Stephen Wallace, Senior Advisor, and four other staff members.

On March 22, 2019, the members of its advisory board were announced, and on March 25 it held its first in-person meeting with the commissioner and the executive director. The board will provide advice to the commissioner on how to carry out its mandate. It is composed of seven individuals who reflect gender balance, Canada's diversity, and a broad swath of political affiliations and expertise.

The commission has established a web presence, and on April 4 it launched a request for interest related to debates production, which informed a full request for proposals that was issued earlier this week.

Additional costs are expected for the contracting of a production entity to produce and broadcast the debates, the ongoing operation of the advisory board, awareness raising and engagement of Canadians, and administrative costs.

As the members around the table will know, the commission has the independence to determine how best to spend the operating funds it has been allocated while remaining within the funding envelope.

In his recent appearance before this committee on May 2, 2019, the debates commissioner, the Right Honourable David Johnston, reiterated his intention and duty to use funding in a responsible manner. Furthermore, he emphasized that the funding being sought is an “up to” amount and that the commission will ensure it operates cost-effectively in all of its work.

Finally, the Order in Council setting the mandate of the commission is clear: the Leaders’ Debates Commission is to be guided by the pursuit of the public interest and by the principles of independence, impartiality and cost-effectiveness.

The commission provides a unique opportunity for Canadians to hear from those looking to lead the country, from reliable, impartial sources.

As we know, online disinformation is something we will all contend with leading up to the next election.

The leaders' debates become even more important this year as they provide a venue to communicate clear and reliable information that is accessible to everyone at the same time.

I am pleased to answer any questions members may have on this topic.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you very much, Minister. Thanks for coming. You come here a lot.

I'd like to welcome Bob Bratina to the committee.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

We'll open the questioning with Madam Lapointe.

Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm trying to start up my computer. Yesterday, I visited the commission's website. We have been told that the commission is on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. I was looking at the financial aspect in particular. I don't know if you have checked out the commission's site, but there is no link to Instagram. The site only indicates which platforms the commission is using.

Are you aware of this?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

No.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

You didn't check it out? Yesterday, I checked it out.

That was my first question. I am trying to start up my computer but it is not co-operating.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

I know that my staff looked everywhere today and found the link to Instagram. It may be easier to access from the app than from the computer.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

No. I tried it.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

We could show you how to do it.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Okay.

Both you and Debates Commissioner David L. Johnston have already appeared before the committee on this matter. How is he making out with his preparations? There is a process to be followed. The website gives the timeline. For example, it shows what is to be accomplished by March and by May. Has he completed what he had to do within the timeframe?

11:10 a.m.

Matthew Shea Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Privy Council Office

Similar to the last time we appeared, I'd underscore the fact that they're arm's length. We provide support to the debates commissioner as needed, from a corporate perspective.

As far as them getting along, we're helping them to get contracts in place. They have an RFP out right now, and we're working with them on that. They have space set up. If they have IT requirements, we help them.

As far as tracking their progress, that's not our role. In fact, for most questions you'll have that are really detailed about the work they're doing, we're not involved. That's a very purposeful decision we've taken to ensure that we are at arm's length here. It's no different from what we do with the commission of inquiry for MMIWG or for the new special adviser to the Prime Minister. We absolutely make sure that there's an arm's-length relationship and independence.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

It is an entity unto itself. These people report to the commissioner. Ultimately, the minister is supervising this. Is that correct?

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

It is not a supervisory relationship. We—

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

You are accountable to the government.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

Yes, as the independent commissioner, Mr. Johnston is required to report to Parliament. During the process, we ensured that the commission would have the independence required to make its own decisions and that there would be no political or government influence. As stated in the Order in Council, after the election the commission is to table a report in Parliament providing its advice on this matter.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

You spoke about cost-effectiveness. There will be a leaders' debate in French and one in English. As we know, the leaders will be asked to participate. Do you know if all television networks purchase the rights? I am thinking in particular of Radio-Canada, TVA and CPAC.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

No. The Order in Council states the following.

The feed has to be free. It has to be made available to any organization free of charge. That was done specifically and purposefully. One of the things we heard through the consultations is that these debates should be accessible to any Canadian who is interested in them, and they should be made easily available. Making the feed free of charge will accomplish that goal.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

The commission's main mandate is to make the debate accessible to everyone, including members of minority language communities and members of the linguistic majority, whether English or French. Not all people will necessarily have access to electronic tools. I imagine they will ensure that the debate will be on the radio.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

That is the objective.

The dissemination of the debates themselves will be available. The only requirement, as listed in the order in council, is to ensure the integrity of the debates. Otherwise, the feed will be made available.

That's really up to Canadian entities, organizations and broadcasters as to how they choose to use that.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

All right.

You said that there will be a report at the end. Have you at least specified what kind of report you want and what you want it to cover? For example, will the commission determine if it managed to reach young people as expected? We know that it is more difficult to reach young voters. Is that one of the issues that you want to see in the report that will be tabled after the election?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

We have yet to work out all those details, but you can see in section 10 of the order what we hope to get from this report.

Of course, next time you see the commissioner I think it would be a good idea to ask him those very questions if you want to know what happened after the election. I encourage parliamentarians to do that.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

I started by talking about social media because I tried to connect to each platform last night.

We need to raise awareness. I know that it's part of the commissioner's mandate to raise awareness and to reach as many electors as possible to inform them of upcoming debates and encourage them to get out and vote. Is that something you would like the commissioner to do?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Karina Gould Liberal Burlington, ON

The mandate includes a component on public awareness of the debates. The goal is not necessarily to encourage people to go out and vote. At the very least we have to ensure that all Canadians are aware of the leaders' debates and know how to view them.