Evidence of meeting #40 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon
Vikram Vij  Provincial Member, British Columbia, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments
Jeannette Arsenault  Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments
Brian Francis  Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Good morning. Welcome to meeting 40 of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

Today, the committee is studying order-in-council appointments to the Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments.

With us today are three provincial members of the advisory board. We have Chief Brian Francis, from Prince Edward Island; Jeannette Arsenault, from Prince Edward Island; and by video conference, Vikram Vij, from British Columbia.

The meeting is being held pursuant to Standing Order 111, which states:

The committee, if it should call an appointee or nominee to appear pursuant to section (1) of this Standing Order, shall examine the qualifications and competence of the appointee or nominee to perform the duties of the post to which he or she has been appointed or nominated.

I would remind the committee to be mindful of this in their questioning of the witnesses. Members can also refer to pages 1011 and 1013 of the House of Commons Procedure and Practice for additional guidance.

The committee members know this, but just for the witnesses, we're only mandated to ask you about your qualifications. If someone asks you something else, I may allow them to ask it, but you don't have to answer it if you don't want to.

Quickly, for the record, for committee members, and you can take it back to any committee members who aren't here, there are two things. One is—and I don't want to discuss it now—there's a Kenyan delegation that will be asking for time with procedure and house affairs in the near future. I'm going to suggest we do the same as we did with Austria, and have a meeting that's not in our regular time slot, which would use up our time. If anyone objects to that, get back to me later.

Second, I would just like a motion from the committee to approve the expenses for our witnesses who have travelled, which are roughly.... How much is it?

11 a.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Andrew Lauzon

It's $3,900.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Anita, you're going to second it.

Is anyone opposed?

(Motion agreed to)

What I think we'll do, because we're going to have to come back, is that we'll get all three witnesses to do their opening statements, but we'll concentrate our time on the video conference. Hopefully, we can finish that, because we have to leave for a vote and come back later.

Vikram, would you like to make some opening comments?

11 a.m.

Vikram Vij Provincial Member, British Columbia, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Sure.

My name is Chef Vikram Vij. I am from Vancouver. I was quite honoured to be appointed as an independent member.

We worked extremely hard and went through all the applications by the Privy Council. I was very well notified about everything that took place, what I needed to study, and what I needed to educate myself on. It was a bipartisan-style process. To choose a senator from this province was a great honour bestowed upon me. I'm humbled and honoured by the process. Hopefully, the choices that we have made were and are quite focused and thorough.

That's all I have to say.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you very much, and thank you for making yourself available.

Ms. Arsenault, could you give any opening remarks, please.

11:05 a.m.

Jeannette Arsenault Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also was honoured to be asked to sit on this committee. I will just give you a little bit of background, which you do have in my resumé.

I was born on Prince Edward Island and I've spent most of my life there, except for one year in New Brunswick at a community college and then five years in Toronto working for a firm. After that, I moved back to Prince Edward Island, where I started my own business, which I've been running for 27 years. I've taken a lot of risks in life. There have been ups and downs, and as a result I have a lot of life experience. I've done a lot of volunteering with different committees. My parents brought me up to believe that if you volunteer and you give some of your time, a lot of that will come back and you will learn how to live a good life by doing that.

Thank you for your time.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you, and thank you for taking another risk and coming here today. Anita's a really tough questioner.

11:05 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Chief Brian Francis, could you give any opening remarks, please.

11:05 a.m.

Brian Francis Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Good morning, everyone.

Thank you for having me here. It's an honour to be here. It's an honour to be a part of the whole independent Senate advisory process.

You have my CV, but I want to give you a bit of background on my life journey to where I am today. I was born on a small first nation in the Malpeque Bay off Prince Edward Island. The only way off the island in the summertime was by a small ferry. The only way to get off in the wintertime was by ice. The living conditions were very hard, but we learned some good ethics and strengths from those days. During those times, the residential school era and the sixties scoop both had effects on my small community.

I left the island because I had to go to high school, and I became the first Mi’kmaq person from P.E.I. to get a Red Seal trade certificate. Following that, I worked for a few years with my first nation, and then I went to apply for a job with the federal government. I was at the lowest end, as a CR-2 registry clerk. Nineteen years later, I was in a senior management position, and I worked my way up the ladder, learning as I went. Life has been a learning journey for me. I've gained a lot of skills. I was on many merit-based selection board processes in my time at the federal government. That certainly helped me to do what I have done here on the independent Senate advisory board.

Following that, I became the elected chief of the Abegweit First Nation in 2007, again in 2011, and again in 2015. I'm going into my 10th year as a first nation leader. That's where I'm at.

Thank you very much.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you very much.

We appreciate your being here today, and your unique set of skills will be great.

If we're proceeding in the normal rounds, I'm going to cut the time back from seven minutes to five minutes because we're losing some, and I'd like to finish with the B.C. one at least, so that he can go off the video conference.

If people on the first round can limit their comments to B.C., we'll get to the other witnesses when we get back from the vote.

Mr. Graham is first, with only five minutes.

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

That shouldn't be a problem.

Thank you, Vikram, for being here. I'm familiar with your recipe book. When my ex and I split up, it was the only thing we fought over.

11:05 a.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

11:05 a.m.

Provincial Member, British Columbia, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Vikram Vij

There is no reason to fight; just share.

November 17th, 2016 / 11:05 a.m.

Liberal

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

We couldn't immediately get a second copy.

I appreciate your experience and knowing who you are, because I saw the name and I thought it was familiar, and then I figured out why. Thank you for that.

I want to tie this back into the Senate, which is much more interesting for the purpose of this committee. You have an incredible depth of experience in the food industry, far more than the rest of us, except for eating. I would like to know, in that career have you had a lot of opportunities to choose people? How do you do merit selection in your experience in that industry?

11:05 a.m.

Provincial Member, British Columbia, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Vikram Vij

I think the key process, having had businesses and having had a one-man show such as a restaurant and then up to 180 people now, is that you have to choose really solid leaders and people who can see your vision, who are pragmatic, and who can follow through with what you want and what your goals are.

With that experience of having been in the business for 35 years, you can bring that to the table, read a curriculum vitae of somebody, and create a picture of that person in your mind without having to have that person in front of you. It's the way the person writes, the way the person has expressed themselves, the reference letters, what points to look for, how long they have worked at that position, where they have worked, and what they have been. Those human resources skills come to you from being in the business for such a long time and creating your own team of advisers, CFOs, and CEOs.

I was able to apply that pragmatism to the Senate applications and to read those applications and say, “Okay, this person has done this for how long?”, and I was able to sift through some of the ones where I thought, “Okay, this is great, but it doesn't fit in perfectly,” or, “I think this fits in perfectly”. It was a narrowing down process from where we started, a process of elimination and of slowing saying this person doesn't fit or this person fits the bill properly.

That pragmatism comes just from being practical, by being in the business for so long, and by having run your own organizations. How would I want this person to be? I knew exactly what the position required and what a senator's position is supposed to be. I had done my homework on that. I was able to say, “Okay, if I were a senator, what would I want to be done, or what would I do?” I was able to see through those applications and say that this person fits the bill or does not fit the bill.

That comes just through experience, and it comes from being in the business for such a long time.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

It makes it hard to ask more questions. It's clear that you meet our requirements for being qualified. The purpose of our discussion here is to test the qualifications of those appointed by the Governor in Council.

I don't have any great doubts from that conversation about your CV and your comments.

Do any of our colleagues have a quick question?

Ms. Vandenbeld.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Vandenbeld Liberal Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Thank you very much.

I agree with my colleague. I think all your qualifications are quite remarkable.

In your experience, obviously you've had to be a good judge of character, be able to see people's potential, and see whether or not they're qualified for different positions. One of the most important things in doing that is being able to see past the surface, and look at diversity perspectives, differences in life experiences that people can bring to the table.

Can you tell me a little about how you go about ensuring that when you are selecting people you really are looking at all the variety of things they can bring to the table, including different backgrounds?

11:10 a.m.

Provincial Member, British Columbia, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Vikram Vij

One of the things I exercised in my own mind was to never look at the name right off the bat. I looked at the curriculum vitae of the person. I looked at what they had done. I read the reference letters of that person. I built a character of that person. Sometimes I just had a piece of paper there and I would write down points that wowed me a little. If someone said this person has volunteered at so-and-so. I would say this is a great point. I would write that down right off the bat. I would go back to it afterwards and wonder if I had looked at it properly. It was never about where they came from, the colour of their skin, the political affiliation.

My position was to find the best person for that job. I was not going to allow anybody to make me make a decision, saying they are Indo-Canadian or Indo-French or Indo-this or Indo-that or any of that stuff.

I was just in South Africa and I gave a speech to some of the House of Commons people there. I said I came from the largest democracy, India, but I live in the best democracy, Canada.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you very much.

Mr. Richards, you have five minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'll apologize to our witnesses because I have something else I wanted to touch on briefly. It's a notice of motion that I wanted to give to the committee. I'll do that very quickly, then I will have some time for some questions for you. I apologize that I'll use a little of our time.

The motion that I am putting on notice here is:

That the Committee invite Paul Szabo, Sven Spengemann, Veena Bhullar, Jamie Kippen, and a representative from the Parkhill Group to appear to answer all questions related to the correspondence sent to the Chair of the Procedure and House Affairs Committee on October 28, 2016, regarding alleged breaches of the Canada Elections Act in Mississauga-Lakeshore.

I just wanted to put that verbally on notice, Mr. Chair. Obviously we would return to that at a later date.

I appreciate the witnesses' indulgence for that.

I'll move now to some questions for you. My understanding is that you want us to focus on our B.C. representatives.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Will you be sending us that motion in writing?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

Yes. I've just read it in, of course. I can provide you a copy if you like.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Thank you. That would be great.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

How did you find that process to work in the interface with the other members of the committee? You mentioned how you evaluated, but then of course you have to come to a decision as a group. Do you have any recommendations as to how it might be improved in the future?