Evidence of meeting #40 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon
Vikram Vij  Provincial Member, British Columbia, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments
Jeannette Arsenault  Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments
Brian Francis  Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

12:20 p.m.

Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Jeannette Arsenault

I received a call from the provincial government, from the office of our minister. I was asked to answer a few questions and than I read in the newspaper that five names had been submitted to your committee. That is how I was appointed. I took no steps personally, as I did not even know that candidates were being sought. I am one of the people whose names were put forward.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

I presume that the same thing happened in the Mr. Francis' case.

What do you know about the Senate and the work of parliamentarians here in Ottawa, in our federal institution? What do you know about the Senate in order to prepare yourselves to propose the names of persons who are qualified to become senators?

I would like to hear Ms. Arsenault's reply and then Mr. Francis.

12:20 p.m.

Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Jeannette Arsenault

Does Mr. Vij understand French?

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

I think he has access to the interpretation service.

12:20 p.m.

Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Jeannette Arsenault

I can answer in English. It might be just as easy. As for working with the Senate and that, I have never been a government employee, so I don't know all the rules and regulations that they all have. But as a citizen of Prince Edward Island, I can tell you that, if you look at my resumé, you'll see that I have been on many different boards, from a chamber of commerce president to a lot of different boards and committees that have prepared me to look at a lot of the policies and things that happen in government. For sure, I keep aware of what's happening.

I know that the Senate is a very important House that should continue, because the work they do is very important for Canada. We need that second House that looks at the bills to make sure that things are not just put through because a group of people want them. If it's debated and everybody agrees with it, then I know it's good. It has to be good for all of Canada. It can't just be good for a little group. By all these committees and things, that's how I kept abreast of what happens in government.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Francis—

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

I'm sorry, your time has expired.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Already...?

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

It's a little over.

Ms. Petitpas Taylor, go ahead, please.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you once again for appearing before this committee today. Thank you for the time you are granting us.

My questions are for Ms. Arsenault.

Ms. Arsenault, it is always nice to welcome an Acadian from back home. I thank you once again greatly for your presence.

In preparing for this meeting, I read your resume. It is extremely impressive and includes a lot of community work. I will do a brief overview of it.

I see that you own a small business in your region.

Regarding your volunteer work, the list of your achievements and the efforts you have put into your community is incredible. I am impressed.

You have done a lot of work at the chamber of commerce, as you mentioned, with small and medium businesses. You are also the spokesperson for the Acadian and Francophone Chamber of Commerce of Prince Edward Island, an organisation that is very important to maintain our francophone and acadian culture. I am happy to see that.

I also see that you have done a lot of work in the area of tourism, which is extremely important for your province, and for all provinces.

You have been the director of the Acadian and Francophone Community Advisory Committee.

You have worked in the arts and culture sector.

We see that you have an impressive resume and that you are well positioned to do the work for which you have been chosen.

How have all of your achievements, all of your professional work, as well as all of the volunteer work you have done, equipped you to become a member of this committee?

12:25 p.m.

Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Jeannette Arsenault

Thank you very much for your comments.

When you do a lot of volunteer work, you can learn a lot. Whenever I sat on a committee, I left knowing more than when I arrived. When you work with a lot of people, you find out what they do, how they do it, what works and what doesn't. I think I have a lot of common sense and intuition.

If you have to advise the Prime Minister on Senate appointments, clearly you have to determine if the candidates will be capable of making the right decisions for Canada. After all, every decision that is made ultimately affects us. I think that all of my experience has given me what I need to make good decisions.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Absolutely. You have worked with a lot of people over the years. Because of your years of experience and the many working groups you have been a part of, I am sure you have acquired a good capacity for assessing people and working with them.

12:25 p.m.

Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Jeannette Arsenault

Yes, I have.

I have 15 employees in my business. When we hire, of course we look for people who have the necessary skills. You have to be able to judge whether they will be able to do the job in the enterprise or not. As Mr. Vij said, we need to know, when we hire, if the person will be able to do the work we need them to do. Over the years, we have acquired the capacity to assess people and determine if they are the right people for the job.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

You have honed that skill thanks to the experience you acquired over the years.

12:25 p.m.

Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

I thank you very much for the contribution you have made throughout your career, and that you continue to make, to your province and your country.

We simply want to say thank you very much for your good work.

12:25 p.m.

Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Jeannette Arsenault

Thank you very much.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

I'm going to share some time.

I have a question for you, Mr. Francis. You've done a lot of work. You're currently a chief of a first nation, and you've done a lot of intergovernmental relations work. I find that really fascinating. You've achieved quite a lot in those areas. The Senate and the government are constantly dealing with this relationship with the first nations.

With your experience, how do you think that affected or complemented being able to make recommendations for senators?

12:25 p.m.

Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Brian Francis

I think over the years I've gained a wide range of experience in the various jobs and positions that I've had. I feel that I have a strong reputation in the province of Prince Edward Island. I have personal integrity, sound judgment, confidentiality, and all those kinds of attributes. I've worked over the years to develop them and feel very competent to have done the roles that I have done by selecting the five nominees.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

What kinds of skills—

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Sorry, you are over your time.

Mr. Richards, you have five minutes.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As I reflected on the response that I received in my last question from Mr. Vij, he's technically correct. I think he certainly answered the question appropriately. It really reminded me of what a sham this so-called reform to the Senate is by the Prime Minister. Listening to the response that I received, although technically accurate, really points to the problems behind the process being set up. Still it's the Prime Minister making the appointments. It was made very clear in the response I received that, should there be conflict, the board would have to obviously accept that the Prime Minister has that right to just go ahead and appoint whoever he wants, whether the people have been recommended by the board or not.

It really points to the fact that this is no kind of reform at all. In fact, all it's doing is adding another layer and another appointment process to the board. No doubt they are conducting their work diligently and they are doing the best job they can. They're quality people; there's no question about that. They offer something. But at the end of the day, their decisions are not binding. Their decisions have no weight at all. If the Prime Minister chooses to appoint whoever the heck he wants to appoint, he can go ahead and appoint whoever it is he wants.

Clearly, there's not really any reform in this at all. It's the Prime Minister making appointments to the Senate just like it's always been in this country. That isn't reform, and it isn't what Canadians want to see. It isn't going to really change anything about how the Senate functions or operates. That's something that was made very clear. I want to take the opportunity to point that out because it's a really unfortunate situation.

We've got a Prime Minister who, like with many things, claims to be one thing and he's actually something completely other than that. In this case, he's choosing to use his dictatorial powers to be able to appoint whoever he wants to the Senate. Unfortunately, this board, no matter how great their qualifications—and I would certainly say from what I'm hearing that we have qualified people who have really worked hard to diligently do their job—at the end of the day, their recommendations are ignored. They can be ignored, and there's nothing anyone can do. The Prime Minister is in charge, and he does whatever it is he wants. If he wants to appoint good Liberals, he appoints good Liberals.

Having said that, I've had a chance to ask Mr. Vij some questions, and I'll ask our other witnesses some questions.

I'll start with you, Madame Arsenault. I'll confess, I was listening to the interpretation when you were speaking in response to Mr. Dusseault. The way it came across in the interpretation, at least, when you were asked about how you had been appointed, you said you had received a call from our minister. There may have been a problem with the interpretation, but who were you referring to when you said “our minister” when you received a call?

12:30 p.m.

Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Jeannette Arsenault

I received a call from the Premier's office.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

From your Premier, okay.

12:30 p.m.

Provincial Member, Prince Edward Island, Independent Advisory Board for Senate Appointments

Jeannette Arsenault

Yes and I was asked a bunch of questions, as I'm sure the others were. I think he picked five names, at least that's what was on our paper, so it was our Premier's office.