Evidence of meeting #56 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clerk.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

11:35 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

It is to you.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

This is the House's budget.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

I know.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Unless you have issues on the PPS side. Again, I'm not here to prejudge. You have a right to question the estimates.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

It's hard to completely separate that from the privilege motion. There's an overlap there. As I mentioned earlier, I did have an avenue to deal with my concern. I accept that I may be in the minority. That's fine, but I still have my rights. That's why I acknowledge that I have a venue and a vehicle for doing it, but it's buried so far down that, in effect, it's de facto not there. Some of these things I'm going to want to talk about. I want to make it crystal clear, much clearer in terms of how the command works around here. Those two just naturally overlap. I'm not trying to create a problem—

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

I understand.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

—I just find it impossible to separate the two. I think you get it. I'll go on if you want, but I think you get what I'm saying.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Ironically, it's the same people coming here. Whether it's the privilege motion or the estimates' motion, we're seized of those same parties. The question is, what's the subject matter they're preparing for when they appear before us as witnesses?

11:35 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

You're a smart guy. You can figure it out. You've heard me. You know what my other issues are. You know how they overlap on this point, and I think you can probably map out what my agenda is. I'm not hiding it. Yes, we need the two hours.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

David, another option is that we're going to have the Chief Electoral Officer in very soon, when we get back to that, and we could have PPS for the privilege motion, so you might be able to ask all those extra questions on those two occasions, as opposed to during the estimates.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

If you want to try to do that, and part of the first meeting dealing with the privilege also has us deal with the estimates, I'm fine with that. It makes it easier for me, quite frankly.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

No. I was suggesting that during the privilege motion we have PPS, so you would deal with the types of things you want to that aren't strictly estimates, and then we would just have them for an hour on the estimates.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

I see. This is where it is a matter of co-operation and honour. My friend Filomena Tassi is a lawyer and knows me well. She knows exactly what I'm saying.

If you would allow me a little more latitude than we might normally allow on the privilege part, where I'm going to get into some of the structural...just a little, then I'm prepared to look at the estimates as more of a matter of pro forma. What I was seeking to do was to raise the issues that I could raise during estimates, for which, technically, if someone wanted to push and you wanted to be stringent, I might find some difficulty raising when we're dealing with privilege.

What I want is a little bit of latitude there, because to me they are linked. It's impossible to talk about the privilege issue without talking about how security is structured here, how the command process works, and what the reality is, versus the nice flowered-up version of how things work around here vis-à-vis security.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

John Nater Conservative Perth—Wellington, ON

I actually respect Mr. Christopherson's comments on that. I think there is a venue through the privilege motion to discuss some of those structural things. I don't know that we need latitude, because I think they do fit in rather nicely.

Going to Mr. Chan's comments a couple of interventions ago about the framework for moving forward with the privilege motion, I suggest that perhaps as soon as next Tuesday our first witness be the acting Clerk of the House, Mr. Bosc, whom we could invite to attend the committee to outline the importance of privilege and the key issues there. From that, I think, would flow a logical framework of where we go with witnesses, and so on.

If we start with Mr. Bosc on Tuesday, that would provide us with a good starting point to move forward with the other witnesses, including PPS. Also, we may want to begin thinking about inviting the two members whose privileges were violated, Mr. Bernier and Ms. Raitt who, for reasons of political leadership, have a busy next couple of weeks.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Okay, just hold that thought for a second. I want to finish the estimates.

Given that it appears you have that latitude, Mr. Christopherson, we could have the PPS and the Clerk for one hour.

Very soon after these two items we're going to have Elections Canada here anyway. At the first meeting we have, the first part of that meeting would be to answer all of those questions you have that are not estimates-related? That would leave them for—

11:40 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

They are estimates-related, to the extent that it's work they are going to do, and things like that. Anyway, go ahead.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

That would leave the estimates just for an hour.

Is that okay with you?

11:40 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Yes.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Okay, so we'll try the 16th, 18th, or 30th, with one hour for each, whenever they are available. We'll have one hour for protective services and the Clerk, and one hour for Elections Canada. Then we'll deal with Mr. Christopherson's other issues in the other meetings we just talked about. We'll deal with privilege in the first meeting on—

11:40 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Does that mean, then, that at the first meeting of the Chief Electoral Officer we'll actually have the Chief Electoral Officer in so that we can pose those questions?

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Yes, for that meeting, we'll ask for the Chief Electoral Officer to come.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

We've taken the time away from one place. I just need to see it added in the other, or some recognition fo that. If we just went back to what we were doing, there would be staff here but not the Chief Electoral Officer.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

We'll invite him.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Would we actually go into public for that portion of it?

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Sure.