Evidence of meeting #74 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was event.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Olivier Champagne  Legislative Clerk, House of Commons
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon
Madeleine Dupuis  Policy Advisor, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Mr. Christopherson must be much better at selling tickets than I am. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, and tickets get sold.

In terms of the reality of the situation, if a particular individual is coming, you advertise that particular individual as long as you can and as hard as you can to sell the greatest number of tickets you can, and the “wink, wink, nudge, nudge” behind the scene is contrary to the spirit of the legislation. Even if we don't think we're all better than that, at the end of the day we want to sell the most tickets possible. I think this measure provides for that . Regardless of who attends, they'll still be covered within the final report, and there will be transparency. It's not that—wink, wink, nudge, nudge—the finance minister shows up, and the act doesn't apply.

I think I'm going to oppose this amendment because I think it's reasonable to allow that if someone got parliamentary flu or actual flu, another individual can be swapped in.

11:40 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Well, if I can, Chair, my response is that it's nice the government says that would never happen, but if we were dealing with things that never happened, we'd never need this legislation, would we?

I don't buy that argument. It seems to me that if you mean what you say and there are no games being played—and I take you at your word—why not put it in the legislation? Why do I have to take your word? Why not put it in the legislation? Then we know for sure that nothing like that's going to happen.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Filomena is next.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

David, with respect to your point, the first thing I would say is, wouldn't you be best off advertising the heaviest hitter coming? Right? Would you agree? Aren't you better off if you're advertising you've got—

11:40 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Let's say you're not sure.... Anyway, go ahead.

October 19th, 2017 / 11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

In terms of that concern, I think that if you're having an event, you're going to advertise the person who's coming and you're not going to have someone else behind the scene who may be more influential—I shouldn't say that—or a more senior cabinet person. You'd put that in the advertisement. That just makes sense, and I think you'll agree with that.

The other thing is that in the event that you have a number of people coming and you've advertised that a cabinet minister is coming, and that person does get sick, with this amendment, you'd have a problem. You couldn't sub someone in.

For those two reasons, I think I won't be able to support the amendment.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Go ahead, Ruby.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

I'd just like a clarification from the departmental officials.

Even if a minister was swapped out, the way I'm reading this is that it allows for flexibility. It does happen. It happened to me when I really wanted a certain minister and I was planning and hoping for months beforehand, and it didn't end up working out. Then with weeks until the event, it ended up being somebody else. That person who does end up coming in the end has to be in the five-day notice, right?

11:40 a.m.

Policy Advisor, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Madeleine Dupuis

Yes. Every regulated fundraising event needs to be advertised five days in advance with the name of the minister or party leader who is coming. If there's a change to the information in the notice, there is an obligation to update. If there's a change in ministers three days in advance, then there's the obligation to update the notice.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Would that minister still be allowed to attend if the notice was updated with the change of name three days before?

11:40 a.m.

Policy Advisor, Democratic Institutions, Privy Council Office

Madeleine Dupuis

The notice needs to be updated as soon as feasible once there's a change, and if the change happens after the event started—that is, once the notice is no longer valid—they need to be in the report.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

Okay.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Is there any further discussion?

Can we vote on this amendment then, please?

(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])

We'll go on to LIB-3. If this amendment is adopted, Elizabeth May's motion, PV-2, cannot be moved, because there's a line conflict.

11:40 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

PV-2 is not the one right after it, however.

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Also, the vote on LIB-3 would apply to a consequential amendment, LIB-7.

There would be two effects of voting for this: PV-2 could not be moved, and LIB-7 would apply to whatever the result of the vote is.

Could whoever is presenting this present the motion?

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

This is simply an Elections Canada request. It splits filing obligations and deadlines into separate requirements. It's a very simple change.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Could we hear from Ms. May about the logic behind her proposed amendment and its purpose?

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Elizabeth, could you present PV-2?

11:45 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before I present, I apologize to the committee members, but I need to put it on the record that every time I am forced to be before a parliamentary committee, I am here under duress. This committee passed a motion that requires me to be here if I want to put forward amendments at this stage. Otherwise, but for the motion of this committee, I would have had rights to put forward these amendments at report stage.

Since report stage happens only once in the chamber, you don't have the conflict that I had just the week before Thanksgiving, when both Bill C-45 and Bill C-49 went to clause-by-clause consideration at the same time, and because of the motions passed in those committees, I had to present amendments at the same time.

I would particularly urge this committee, as the committee on procedure and House affairs, that this is the committee that should have determined whether my rights as an MP needed to be curtailed at report stage. Under the former prime minister, the PMO basically did an end run around PROC to change the way legislation is treated in the House, by passing identical motions committee to committee requiring members of Parliament in parties with fewer than 12 MPs, or independents, to bring their motions to committee with 48 hours' notice. This is to create a fake “opportunity” that denies me my rights at report stage.

That's the context in which I tell you that I am here under duress. I know a lot of you are unfamiliar with this situation, even though the committee passed this motion. You probably thought it was a friendly thing, a nice thing, but it has probably taken years off my life to try to get to every committee at clause-by-clause consideration, instead of having the rights I would otherwise have at report stage. It's particularly offensive to PROC. If you were, for instance, to repeal your own committee motion, I'd find that extremely helpful.

I'll be very brief. I understand that the conflict occurs with the Liberal amendment, which deals with lines 34 to 36 on page 6. So does mine.

PV-2 stands for Parti vert-2, because the clerks of the committees decided not to call my motions “Green Party” because then they would look like government motions, with a “G”. That's why it's Parti vert-2.

Parti vert-2 is in conflict with paragraph (b) of David's amendment. What I am trying to do with my amendment is ensure that it's not precluded that the reporting take place during an election. If you go to the bill, you see that I basically change the language. Where it says, “Subsections (1) to (6) do not apply in respect of a regulated fundraising event”, my amendment, Parti vert-2, would change the words “do not apply” to “continue to apply”, so that the fundraising rules within this legislation would apply during the writ period.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Thank you.

Is there any further discussion on LIB-3?

Mr. Reid, go ahead.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

I want to ask whether the Liberals find what Ms. May is proposing to be reasonable, since there is no inherent conflict between what they are proposing and what she is proposing.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Mr. Bittle, go ahead.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

I guess there is.... I'm sorry. I'm not sure what—

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

This is a bit like what happened earlier.

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Yes.