Mr. Richards.
Evidence of meeting #8 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gifts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #8 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gifts.
A recording is available from Parliament.
February 18th, 2016 / 11:25 a.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
Thank you.
I want to pursue the idea of gifts as well, specifically in relation to the idea of events, receptions, information sessions, meetings, galas, whatever, the whole list of things that we all attend in the course of our jobs. I'm sure everybody in this room sitting around the table on both sides would say that those are important aspects of our job, important duties as members of Parliament, to meet with people, to hear information, to gather feedback, to meet with constituents, to speak at events, and a variety of things like that.
I'm still struggling a bit with some of the testimony and answers we had last time you were at committee in trying to determine what we can attend and what we can't, what is considered a gift and what is considered part of our official duties. I have a few questions. I hope I'll have time to get to them all.
I wonder if you could you give us some kind of clarification. When you were here last time you indicated that you were recommending that we make the code explicitly exclude events where all members have been invited. That raises a few questions for me. The first one is: how do we, as members of Parliament, know or determine what the invitation list was for an event? Were all members of Parliament invited? How are we to know?
That works well if it's an event taking place here in Ottawa or in the national capital region but it doesn't work so well when it's an event in our own constituency or in our region. If it's an event in one's own constituency is it then acceptable to attend if, say, the local municipal councillors and the local provincial elected members have been invited?
More broadly than that—I'll use Mr. Christopherson's example—if all the politicians in the Hamilton area had been invited, or in my case, if all the politicians in the Calgary area had been invited, would that make it acceptable?
It's really difficult for us to know when, where, and how to determine that. Could you give me some clarification?
11:25 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
As far as I'm concerned, if it's constituency activities that's fine, unless it's some company that's looking for a particular bill from you that targets you specifically for that. But if you're invited to the Catholic brothers something or other, or the Jehovah's Witnesses something or other, there is no problem going there at all.
There was a time when I first came into this office where some of the members thought they had to pay every time they went to one of these fairs, and so forth, and I said, “No, don't worry about that because you're representing your constituency and they're not looking for anything in particular from you.” Those things are fine. That is your constituency.
Sometimes, for example—and it usually happens under the act rather than the code—the Prime Minister might be invited to this, that, and the other thing to represent Canada. There is a whole representational role that's carved out. I don't know if that helps.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes. Keep grilling; that's fine.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
I only have limited time, obviously. I apologize for it.
I still find it grey there.
What is the barrier? How do we, as members of Parliament, determine what kind of event is acceptable and, I guess, when it is considered a gift?
Often, for example, in our ridings we might be asked to attend a charity function. The organizers obviously want you as a member of Parliament to attend, because you're someone who has some recognition and is well thought of in the community, generally—or hopefully. We like to think we're well thought of in the community, anyway. So they'll ask you to come to bring greetings or speak at the event or maybe help with the auctioning of their—
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That is not a problem unless that particular charity at that particular time is seeking support.
I sent an advisory out a couple of years ago in a case when the Falun Gong sent tickets to their performances at the NAC, which would be in the order of $100 or something. At the same time, they were making representations for support.
That's the test. Is there something that they're looking for from you?
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
So as long as there's nothing that they're asking of you as a member of Parliament...?
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, because you are prominent members within a community—
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
If the charity, for example, were to be seeking government funding for a new building or something, then that would be unacceptable?
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It would be unacceptable for the minister who was involved in deciding on the funding. It might be unacceptable for the committee members, if there were a bill before the House or something.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
So the determination is really whether you specifically have a decision-making point in something that this organization is seeking.
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's right.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
What about reporting it as a gift? For example, you're attending that charity function and the ticket price is more than $200. They provided you a ticket because they'd like you there as a prominent member in the community to provide support to their—
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It's the same test, but then you need to report your ticket.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
You'd have to report the ticket, so it's considered a gift.
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes. But why are they giving you a gift worth more than $200? It always troubles me when these charities blanket the Hill with these gifts. What the heck are they spending...?
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
No. I'm not talking about a gift. I'm saying that if you're attending, as I outlined earlier, in your role as a member of Parliament....
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, and they thank you for going....
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB
If they're asking you to be there and you're not paying for a ticket, but the tickets are more than $200, then you must report that as a gift—
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, you have to report it.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
11:30 a.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
You report it, yes. That gives some transparency to what's going on.