Evidence of meeting #87 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Andrew Lauzon

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Ms. Tassi.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

David, I understand what you're saying, and I agree. We want to reach everyone with respect to this, and we want to ensure that it's a safe space, and also that the process is fair.

The issue is that right now the code of conduct, as has been said, only deals with sexual harassment between members. The policy on harassment deals with members and staff. They're completely exclusive. One deals with one, and the other policy on harassment deals with staff and MPs with regard to harassment.

Right now our jurisdiction in the procedure and House Affairs committee is with respect to the code, which just covers member to member—

11:15 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Right.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

—sexual harassment. All the other things are covered under the policy that falls under the direction of the BOIE. That's the issue.

My understanding is that it's not something that we have taken on as our responsibility. I don't know—and maybe the clerk can clarify—how BOIE operates in making its policy and recommendation moving forward, but that is covered under a different policy. My fear is that if we start expanding this policy, which I don't know if we have the jurisdiction to do, and cover things that are already covered under BOIE.... My approach, rather, would be that we cover this policy separately as the code between members, and then if we want to at some point give input to BOIE, that would be a whole separate discussion. I'm not sure about the process in terms of the jurisdiction and authority for us to do it. It's not that I don't want to do it; I just don't know that this is the place to do it.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

I'm not taking it as resistance to the idea. We're into a procedural thing right now, and I get that.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

Exactly.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

No, I'm not concerned.

Can I ask you a question, then? My amendment includes members, employees, interns, volunteers, and other people working with members of the House.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

Yes.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Are all of those folks covered under the BOIE policy?

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

Yes, that's correct. The clerk can confirm that that is correct. I can give you a copy of it.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

No, that's fine. I just wanted it clear in my head because these things get confusing in terms of the different jurisdictions.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

Yes, I know.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

So, none of these folks are excluded at all. They're all captured by the policy of BOIE.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Filomena Tassi Liberal Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON

By the harassment policy, yes.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Including interns, as the clerk read out.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Okay.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Mr. Bittle.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Chris Bittle Liberal St. Catharines, ON

I'm sorry, I didn't catch the last couple of sentences, but I just want to add that the human resources committee is doing an extensive study on Bill C-65, and it just passed a motion to have confidential sessions as well, so that even individuals, interns, staffers, and members of Parliament can come and tell their stories. In terms of that bill, there's movement on those other fronts at this particular point.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

That's good to hear, because what we don't want to do is to leave something behind that we.... Once again, it's us, us, us looking at our policy, but leaving others behind. If that's happening there.... I'll accept that, Mr. Chair, because I know it's really important that we start off united on this.

If I could just flag that if I come to evidence or a point of view that's different from what we've talked about here—because it is detailed and legal in some aspects, too, Fil.... It's just a heads-up that I may come back with that argument, and you can do with it as you will. I'm just one vote here. It's just give a heads-up that I may want to if there's a substantive, good reason that I think there's a retort to what you've presented—and I don't have it right now.

Other than that, I appreciate the feedback, and I'm prepared to support the motion as it is.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Okay. Is there any further discussion on the motion?

(Motion as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Thank you.

Now we will suspend—

Yes?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

I have a motion to put forward:

That the Procedure and House Affairs committee be fully briefed on all consultations undertaken by the Minister of Democratic Institutions with regards to the Government's proposed creation of an Independent Commissioner responsible for Leaders' Debates, prior to the committee's completion of the report on the study on the creation of an independent commissioner to organize political party leaders' debates during future federal election campaigns.

I would like to move that motion now. I believe it's in order because it, obviously, is in keeping with the subject matter of this meeting.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Mr. Richards, would you like to chat about your motion?

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't need to use a bunch of time, but I certainly would like to explain it.

Obviously, what we're doing here is something that's come up in this committee a number of times in the past in relation to other matters that we've had at hand. There seem to be these parallel tracks that occur. I know that has been of particular concern to Mr. Christopherson, but other members of the committee have also expressed concern about it in the past as well, and it's this idea that somehow the committee will work on a subject matter, and then independently, the minister and the government will be doing something. We've even seen cases in which we haven't completed our work, and yet the government has come forward with legislation on an issue.

I'm not suggesting that's what is happening, that there is any intention of the government to do that in this particular instance, but obviously, where there is work being done in consultation on an issue—it was indicated to us the other day that some other consultation have taken place—it would be helpful for the committee to have access to information on what has been heard.

If the goal of the government is to try to utilize the committee, to allow it to be helpful in informing the government in what it does, which I would hope would be the case, then I would think the government would want to share that information with us. Of course, then, we in turn can provide a report that's helpful to the government, hopefully, in determining what course of action it takes.

Obviously, given the fact these consultations have taken place, it would be good to get some kind of a briefing. I haven't indicated who should brief us, but it should be someone who is knowledgeable. Maybe it's Mr. Fillmore who does that, I don't know. The minister or some other official could give us some sense as to what's been heard. That might help inform some of the things we would recommend as part of our report. That is the reason for it.

Obviously, when you're doing something like this as a committee, you want to make sure you have access to all the information available to you. It's much like the amendment I made to the motion earlier. It was just to make sure that the committee had all the information that's available to it to be able to help it make its best decisions. Being prudent, all of us as legislators want to make sure that we have access to that information to be able to do that.

Simply, all this is intended to do is to get us some information that might be helpful to us in making some decisions toward the report.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Larry Bagnell

Okay, thank you.

Ruby.

February 1st, 2018 / 11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Sahota Liberal Brampton North, ON

I like your explanation, Blake, but my initial reaction, even after the explanation, still leans more toward our not doing this because the consultations are over. Our report is done. When all the parties were asked whether they wanted to call more witnesses to this committee, there was very little interest on the part of the Conservatives in calling more witnesses. Our committee's work is our work. In fact, if we wanted to hear testimony from average Canadians or whoever, we had the ability to do so, and we didn't.

Right now we're we're at the stage of finalizing the report, changing a few things around. We might even potentially be done today. That is my hope, but it could take a little longer.

When we set down this task, we were given the option of bringing in whoever we wanted. We chose. We made those decisions. We're at the end of the report. We should complete it and present it to the minister. The role of the committee is to advise the minister, not to call in everyone she may be getting advice from.

I don't even see the purpose of this. It seems like it's delaying getting our report to the minister.