Procedure and House Affairs Committee on April 26th, 2018

[Arok Wolvengrey]

It's very similar to that in that there are two distinct writing systems. The syllabic writing system is in place and used for some dialects or some communities of Cree and preferred in some areas versus alphabetic writing. When we talk about the alphabetic system, there are a number of different forms, some more directly adapted from English or French spelling. There is what we call optimistically the standard Roman orthography for Cree, which has been around for over 40 years now, following a meeting of western Cree speakers in Edmonton in 1973, which adopted a variation of a writing system that had been proposed decades earlier than that.

Much of the material that we try to produce here at First Nations University, the University of Alberta, and so on follows that writing system. There are materials that have been used or have been produced in these writing systems through most of the western dialects. The eastern dialects use a slightly different form for the most part. It's adaptable, but there are minor variations of it across the country. The western dialect is one.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

The reason this is important is that it is the only language or series of dialects—I'm not quite sure of the right term—for which we are likely to encounter the phenomenon of having multiple members of Parliament at the same time. Certainly it's easily imaginable you have one Inuktitut speaker, but there's really only one territory, and one riding therefore, in which you have Inuktitut as a language. Something similar is true for other languages, with the exception of Cree.

In this situation, two questions arise: Do we need to employ multiple translators or can one translator serve if you have people from different parts of the country where Cree language speakers are serving as members of Parliament? If we're trying to have a written Hansard, how ought that to be transcribed? This was a problem for the Nunavut territorial legislature, which chose to use only one—the syllabic system—for its Inuktitut translations, and not the Latin alphabet that's used in the western part of the territory. What are your thoughts on that?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

I believe the current translator here, who was translating for Mr. Saganash, did a fine job. I happen to know he's from northwestern Saskatchewan, and he understood the speech of Mr. Saganash from Quebec very well. It's promising to know there are individuals who are able to adapt that much.

We'd have to ask the individuals who have this skill, but I feel it would probably be preferable to have at least two or three different regions we could choose from: the furthest west, the furthest east, and maybe something more central. Again, though, as with things like the vocabulary, this would be a matter of having elders councils who can come together and talk about the distinctions between the languages and see what they feel would be most appropriate for them.

As for the writing systems, we continue to have that debate here on the various strengths and weaknesses of each of the writing systems. The syllabic writing system is very heavily weighted towards phonetics and writing it exactly as it sounds, so people will write words slightly differently, and there has never really been a standardization of that, whether it's including the marking of long vowels versus short vowels or a variety of things that just haven't been standardized. The prospects of standardization for syllabics are far less than they would be for Roman orthography, as I mentioned. A lot of material has been produced in Innu as well, which has essentially a standard orthography.

It would be a matter of, potentially, a standard Roman orthography for the western dialects, excluding Atikamekw, which has its own writing system—I wouldn't want to try to impose anything on the Atikamekw—and then a more eastern-based one for Innu and so on.

There are solutions. It's just that ultimately, community input and elder input would be vital to that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thanks, Mr. Reid.

We'll move now to Ms. Tassi.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Dr. Wolvengrey, for your testimony today. It's very helpful.

One of the things you mentioned was that your faculty is almost reduced to half; over the past 20 years you've gone from nine to four. Getting away from the discussion of this being a right, and MP Saganash and other witnesses have presented that argument, do you see any impact with respect to the vitality of the language surviving as a result of it being brought to the House of Commons?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

Yes, I do.

The entire language revitalization movement that we see today, the return to the language, is still encountering many roadblocks. The fewer the roadblocks, or rather, the more the positive stories and positive signs we see can only serve to help move this along.

Much of what we hear today is a backlash for the negative feelings that were engendered towards indigenous languages, even among speakers who are proud of their own language but who wouldn't pass it on to their children because they didn't want their children to experience the same things they had experienced in the schools. That attitude is still alive. There are young people who don't see the value of the language and don't see it being used anywhere.

The more we can provide places where it is being used, where it is being respected, and the more we can show young people that you can do everything within your first language or your parents' language that you can with English or French will simply help to reinforce the importance of a language and raise its prestige.

This is another area in which the writing system can come into play. Right now most people can't see signs in their own language. You know how important that was within Quebec. It's another factor. As I think was pointed out in one of the earlier testimonies, if ministers are starting to speak their indigenous languages within the House, it is going to inspire other people to continue using their languages and potentially to want to run for office and have pride in being able to speak their language there. That in turn will inspire other people in their community and in other communities.

I think every place that we can hear and see the indigenous language is a positive, and this is a very positive step by the House of Commons.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

What is your student population now? How many students are studying indigenous languages?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

They're not studying them as majors or minors, but we have usually on campus here at Regina about 150 students in introductory classes every term, out of the 1,000 students we have at First Nations University and 14,000 at the University of Regina. We also teach at our satellite campuses in Saskatoon and Prince Albert. There are probably about 200 people per term who take Cree classes, and a few more with Saulteaux and Nakota and Dakota.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

How many carry on? Do you have a percentage who would continue in second and third year?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

We offer two introductory classes. Because of the requirements of language within various faculties, we usually have 50% to 75% taking both of the intro classes, but it does not carry on, beyond maybe 10% to 15%, into the second year.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

What is it that motivates students now to take indigenous languages? What do you think the federal government could do to encourage more students, other than introducing the languages into the House of Commons?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

I think one reason students take the languages is that they're simply trying to reconnect with their families, with their culture. There is a very strong desire to reconnect with those things, and language is the means to do so. That is the primary motivation.

We note also that many non-indigenous students are taking at least the introductory languages simply because of interest that has been generated by more knowledge about them.

What the federal government can do, I think, is act on many of the recommendations from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that have to do with language. There's the indigenous languages act, which we've heard about and which is coming.

Many of those recommendations talked about the right to language within the schools or in post-secondary education, as in our institution's supporting the languages with programs. That, however, goes to funding as well. The reduction in our faculty is largely because of the struggles that universities across the country have with funding.

Specifically in our own, we have essentially concentrated on some of the intro level classes for students entering U of R programs. We're not really in a financial position to expand those or offer bursaries to fluent speakers who would like to go into language teaching.

There is a variety of things involving education that support from the federal government would be vital for.

[Filomena Tassi, Liberal, Hamilton West—Ancaster—Dundas, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Before we finish off here, let's go quickly to an informal round if there's anyone that has a question that wasn't in the order.

Minister Saganash.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Not yet.

In which dialect did you speak? Which Cree were you speaking? I totally understood everything.

[Arok Wolvengrey]

Excellent. It was Plains Cree, and I'm glad to know I enunciated it properly.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

You mentioned in your presentation some of the challenges that we face in attempting to have indigenous languages in Parliament. Are there others that you would like to raise with us?

[Arok Wolvengrey]

Do you mean other challenges? I suppose, again, ultimately, it would be wonderful to have all of the languages of Canada represented in some way. Languages are extremely endangered, and we always hear about Cree and Ojibwa or Anishinaabemowin and Inuktitut as being the safe ones. Recently, we also tend to add Dene to that because of a recognition that, despite the fact that there are maybe 10,000 or 11,000 fluent speakers, there's still language retention in those communities and children learning it. In many communities, we're down to a very few speakers and elderly speakers, and it's not being passed on.

One of the challenges is that we may not be able to act in time to have a point in time where there will be all 60 languages represented, because we may lose many of them. It's not just a matter of bringing the languages into the House of Commons; it's a matter of making sure those languages are still there so that at some point in the future they can come into the House of Commons.

[Romeo Saganash, NDP, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thus it is important, I would say, to recognize and have institutions like the Parliament of Canada use indigenous languages. It certainly has a positive effect with the Cree. The regional government in northern Quebec operates in three official languages: Cree, French, and English. It works very well. In fact, I invited the committee to consider having the Cree regional government as witnesses for this study.

That is why I asked about the constitutional status of indigenous languages from the outset. That's going to make the difference between a symbolic use of indigenous languages in Parliament versus the formal recognition of indigenous languages as having status and having a place in this country equal to those for French and English.

Thank you for your presentation.

[Arok Wolvengrey]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Thank you, Dr. Wolvengrey, for being with us today. We really appreciate your taking this time and we look forward to working with you in the future.

[Arok Wolvengrey]

[Witness speaks in Cree, interpreted as follows:]

I thank all of you.

I'm grateful to all of you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Mahsi.

Committee members, before we suspend for a minute to set up our other witnesses, when we come back, AFN would like to have some pictures. We don't normally do it during the proceedings, so we'll set up as if we've started, but we won't have officially started, just so they can get some pictures, if that's okay with everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Larry Bagnell]

Welcome back to the 99th meeting of the committee.

We are on the traditional territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquins.

For our second panel, we are joined by National Chief Perry Bellegarde of the Assembly of First Nations. He is accompanied by Miranda Huron, Director of Languages, and Roger Jones, Special Adviser to the National Chief.

Also appearing on this panel is Ellen Gabriel by video conference from Kanesatake.