Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 4th, 2020

[Nicole Gagnon]

I can certainly try to answer your question, Ms. Normandin.

The Translation Bureau and the professional association are not responsible for any technical matters. We provide you with interpreters. Administration staff take care of the technical side of things.

What you are describing is indeed a problem. For example, today, every time I want to speak, I have to switch the console myself to speak to you in French, as is the case now, or in English, as you may have noticed during my speech. This adds to my workload as such.

For those members who would like to listen to the source language and the interpretation, it is true that the platform cannot do that. I would advise you not to use a telephone because you may have compatibility issues with the console. If the headset is too close to the telephone, that could also cause problems.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

All right.

I don't know if I have time for another question, so I will make this quick.

In terms of the virtual Parliament, what is the main issue that leads to bilingualism not being respected?

[Greg Phillips]

One of the worst problems we could face right now is not fixing the problems we've outlined, which both AIIC and CAPE have outlined, and that more interpreters would have to go on long-term sick leave because they can no longer perform their duties.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Phillips.

I've given everyone a little bit of extra time on this round just because we've had some difficulties.

Next up is Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you so much to all the witnesses today. I appreciate your testimony and your interventions.

Could we ask for the international standards for interpreters in video conferences to be tabled with the committee? I just want to make sure that's reflected in the report.

[Greg Phillips]

They are available for download for a cost online. If the chair would like to contact us to let you know what the appropriate ISO numbers are so you can download them, we'd be more than happy to help.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay, thank you so much. That's helpful.

One of the things I heard very clearly is that having a proper headset on and having hard-wired Internet make the sound much clearer for the interpreters.

First, would it be useful to make that mandatory? Second, are all headsets created equal or is there a standard that we should set to make sure that the interpreters can hear us? I open that to anyone.

[Nicole Gagnon]

On whether it should be mandatory or not to wear the headsets, absolutely it should be. It is appended to our brief. We make recommendations to that effect. The headset must be mandatory, as well as a hard-wired Internet connection.

You are quite right that headsets are not all equal, and recommendations can be made to that effect as well. We'd be pleased to provide you with what we feel is best. The House administration is, I believe, handing out headsets to all MPs and we urge you to wear them.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay, perfect.

[Greg Phillips]

If I may, I would simply add that it's difficult.... You have to consider the witnesses when you're doing that because not every witness would necessarily have an appropriate headset like this one. When you're making the rules and you're considering that point, please consider the witnesses as well.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that. That's helpful.

Mr. Phillips, in your testimony you talked about the increase of strain and injuries on interpreters. I really appreciate that you also explained in one of your interventions that a lot of the interpreters are not always choosing to disclose the challenges they're facing and are, of course, really just trying to deliver the work that is so desperately needed.

As I understood, you said that in the period of time between March 31 to May 1, you have seen more strain and injuries claimed than in the whole of 2019. Could you speak to that a bit and also confirm that you will be tabling those numbers for the committee to review?

[Greg Phillips]

What I'm saying is that more than half of the cases in the last year and four months or five months have have happened in the last three weeks.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Will you be able to table that information with the committee?

[Greg Phillips]

Yes, for sure. I have a very good relationship with Lucie Séguin, who is the president of the Translation Bureau, so she and I can talk about this to get some better numbers to you.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay, thank you so much.

You also said that the pool of interpreters is shrinking as people are facing the realities of COVID-19. I understand that interpreters have a very high-level special skill set. If we're running low on numbers, how do we get more? Are there people appropriately trained for that, who we can access? I open that to all of you.

[Nicole Gagnon]

There are the staff interpreters, as I explained. Over the past five weeks, staff interpreters have been working in extremely difficult conditions. They have sustained injury and become excessively fatigued. Of course, that is understood: They were out there from the very beginning trying to put things into place and would have been exposed to more dangerous situations.

Since that time, you have been wearing the headsets and people are becoming more aware of what needs to be done or not done as we become more savvy when it comes to video conferencing. Now, as of last week, the Translation Bureau is calling in freelance interpreters to lend a hand to their colleagues on the Hill.

I believe that if we improve the working conditions, if the headset and the hard-wired connection are mandatory, it will protect the hearing of the interpreters and allow for better sound, and you will not lose more interpreters. If anything, the situation would stabilize if working conditions were good for them. By good working conditions I mean proper sound, no acoustic shocks, no sustained injuries and no excessive fatigue.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

The last part is this. There was a bit of talk about how sometimes you cannot do simultaneous and how consecutive interpreting would be more effective based on some issues. I am wondering if you could tell us when that would be appropriate. I'm thinking of how many rural and remote MPs we have who may not have the best level of Internet accessibility.

[Greg Phillips]

That's a very good question about when it is done. I think, given the time allotted today, we could probably put pen to paper and table something to you about when we feel which of the two would be appropriate, in order to save time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

That's all the time we have.

I want to get agreement among members before we carry on to round two of questioning.

The Speaker and the House leadership team are ready to go on, but they're also willing to wait for about 15 minutes or so, if you would like to carry on to round two of questions. I would suggest, if we do that, that as we have done in previous committees, we cut down the time for round two to perhaps three minutes for the questioning for the first four questioners and then one minute each for the last two questioners.

Can I have agreement for that or would you like to move on to the Speaker at this time?

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I agree with that. In addition, I am prepared to give one minute of my time to Ms. May, if she wishes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I would like to carry on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Go ahead, please.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Let me thank Ms. Normandin for her kindness.

I'm sorry I was late for the meeting. I was delayed due to technical difficulties.

I will let the others ask questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Seeing as at least one member wants to carry on, we'll carry on.

Now we go to Mr. Duncan for three minutes, please.

[Eric Duncan, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

I think it's good that we have this follow-up today following some of the management team speaking last week. I don't begrudge anybody...and I know everybody is trying, but it's good to get into the weeds of some of these challenges that we have in the short term and frankly ones that have existed not just here with COVID, but that I think have been highlighted by it and expanded by it in the last little while.

I'll agree with the point Madam Normandin from the Bloc made about us not being at 100% capacity even right now. I know we're having some committees meet. We're meeting virtually a few days a week. One thing I see a challenge with behind the scenes is our caucus advisory committees. Outside of our regular caucus meetings, we discuss specific portfolios. Not having the translation there is certainly a challenge for members and staff who are working as impromptu translators as well as they can, where they can.

I want to build a bit on the numbers again to clarify where we're at in terms of the issue here with staffing levels. As we mentioned, there would normally be 70 interpreters. We're down to 40 right now given the circumstances, but there are 30 freelancers who have come on.

Mr. Phillips, is the challenge there that there's hesitation to have additional staffing come in or is it an accreditation issue? Can you give us some of that background again to make sure we get it right?