Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Dec. 10th, 2020

[Dr. David Williams]

I'm trying to think where you're going with that question. The students don't move around. They go to the same school.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

No, I'm not going with schools. I'm just asking, can mobility affect the potential for contacts, please?

[Dr. David Williams]

Oh, definitely.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Those are all my questions, and I thank you for being so gracious.

[Dr. David Williams]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Monsieur Therrien, you have six minutes, please.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

If I may, I will make a brief comment first.

Today, the government introduced the bill to amend the Canada Elections Act. The committee has been working on it for some time. This was done in parallel with our work, and we haven't been notified.

I think this is disrespectful to the people working on the committee and to the witnesses who have appeared before us and who have been willing to share their knowledge and insights with us. I think it's somewhat unfortunate that this is the way things are. Unfortunately, they do not care about the work of parliamentarians. I cannot but be very disappointed in the government's behaviour.

Good morning, Dr. Williams. Thank you for joining us today.

I have some questions about rapid testing in particular.

You said you did not use rapid testing during the byelection. Did I understand correctly?

[Dr. David Williams]

That's correct. We didn't utilize them in those locations because we had access to the assessment centres and our PCR testing.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

They are less reliable. Is that correct?

[Dr. David Williams]

The PCR test is very sensitive and very specific, so we have full confidence in it. Some of the rapid tests have some variations and lesser qualities, and therefore we have to put in some processes.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

In Quebec, the situation is different from Ontario.

I would like to know how it is in Ontario. How long does it take for someone to get the results of the test done by means of a nasopharyngeal swab?

[Dr. David Williams]

This is a continual challenge, especially when you're putting through 55,000 to 60,000 people from 149 testing sites. We are trying to get our turnaround time...definitely we have 80% who are within 48 hours of the test, and we're getting close to 90%.

We want our turnaround time to be ideally within that time, but some northern areas have a longer time due to transportation issues from the time the sample is taken until it gets to the testing site. We're hoping to use rapid tests and more point-of-care testing to see if we can improve that timeline.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Given that rapid testing is less reliable, you prefer to use tests that are actually more reliable, even if you have to wait longer for the results. That's my understanding.

If there is a general election, will you consult with the other provinces to determine what measures to apply, or are you already doing so?

Clearly, you are responsible for your own area, but suggestions from other provinces can sometimes be helpful.

[Dr. David Williams]

Since the onset, we have been on the special advisory committee with the Public Health Network Council, which is chaired by one of our chief medical officers of health and by Dr. Theresa Tam. We meet sometimes twice a week, three times a week, on various topics. We share on issues of concern. We haven't specifically talked about this one, but we would be discussing it if and when it did occur.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Are you talking about elections now?

[Dr. David Williams]

We haven't had any specific discussions on that at this time because we do not know of any coming in the near future. We discussed the topics of most pertinence. Right now, we are all tied up with vaccination.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Yes, I imagine so.

Like everywhere else, there are hot spots. You talked about Peel and Toronto. Are you going to be using the same processes across the province, or will you be more careful or more cautious in some places?

Will the measures you are going to propose for polling stations be consistent or will they vary depending on where they are located, with less stringent measures in places where there are fewer cases?

[Dr. David Williams]

Part of the quality of the framework is that it allows some variation of limitations in congregate settings, depending on the per cent positivity in the area, and the number of cases per 100,000, so we can be more more open to that. That will vary, and then the local medical officer of health, who has responsibility in that area, can put in other orders and limitations if there are areas of acute concern in certain settings. We have our provincial framework which allows a baseline, and then the medical officers can add more on if they so wish.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

So there may be variations.

Is the pandemic, as it currently stands, serious enough to justify cancelling an election because the timing is not right? Is the situation considered serious enough to come to that?

[Dr. David Williams]

On a pan-Canadian basis, there are some provinces...I'll have to leave that for my counterparts to comment.

Right now in Ontario, our latest data was 82.4 per 100,000 are active cases, which puts us I think one of the lowest outside the Maritimes so we're still okay at this time. The key is whether it's done over time with use of all the technologies, limited large gatherings, putting all the checks and balances in place and allowing for that to occur. It can still happen at this stage. We haven't yet had to go to total lockdown as in curfews and things like in Melbourne, Australia. We haven't done that, so I would say we're still okay at this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you.

Next is Mr. Blaikie.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

Following on that theme, when you say that it ought to be done over time, we've heard some discussion here at committee about the length of the writ period or the length of the election itself.

The elections law allows for some variation. I think it's between 35 days and 51 days. If there were an election, do you think it would be good that the government adopt the longest possible writ period in order to provide additional time for implementing some of the measures you've mentioned in your testimony?

[Dr. David Williams]

I think that with the use of virtual-type components and spreading out the people, you can cover a lot of people in a short period of time. We watched what happened down in the U.S. to see what worked and didn't work. We're trying to really discourage large mass gatherings or groups where distancing can't be maintained. I think you can do that through technology. Or if you need to have a number of events over a more prolonged period, the key is to keep those numbers down and keep people spaced, both in time and place, to promote prevention.

Both could be utilizable. I think we'd have to always monitor them and document that we were careful. We don't want to have outbreaks attributed to any election processes, and we want to try to protect the public as much as possible.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Each person votes only once, and they do that in either a shorter period of time or a longer period of time. Is it easier to spread people out over a longer period of time than a shorter period of time?

[Dr. David Williams]

I would think more the longer period, to allow for advance polling. People could do it electronically or through different processes so they could exercise their full privileges, especially those who have more accessibility problems. They could do so—if you're talking about long-term care—sometimes by having their essential visitor go out to obtain the ballot and then go back out and submit it through mail. That would allow everyone to have the possibility to vote and barriers and protections would not be an impediment to that. Sometimes that may take a bit more time.