Evidence of meeting #17 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ontario.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thanks, Madam Chair.
While I appreciate this discussion very much and I think it's an important one, I totally disagree with some of the assertions of the member who came before me.
I think this is a conversation about how you prove the motive or intent behind prorogation. I would ask Ms. Brock this.
To your knowledge, who introduced Standing Order 32(7)?
1:15 p.m.
Prof. Kathy Brock
The Liberal government did.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Right. It requires that reasons be provided. That's exactly why we have tabled a document that outlines extensively the reasons the Prime Minister used this prerogative that he had. Is that your understanding?
1:15 p.m.
Prof. Kathy Brock
Yes. It's very important committee work, and that Standing Order is also important, I believe.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
1:15 p.m.
Prof. Kathy Brock
Ultimately, it's the public.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thank you for that.
Mr Lagassé, in your remarks you talked about prorogation being used to clear the slate and start afresh, often citing significant events. Would you consider a global pandemic to be a significant event?
1:20 p.m.
Associate Professor, International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Certainly, if one were trying to identify the clearest reason for prorogation, a significant event such as a pandemic could be, and probably in this case would be, offered as the most legitimate reason.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Could that shift the agenda of the executive branch of government significantly?
1:20 p.m.
Associate Professor, International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Yes, absolutely.
1:20 p.m.
Associate Professor, International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
It does.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Great. Thank you.
When you talked about tactical or hardball prorogations—
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
There is a problem with your mike, Mr. Turnbull. We'll just pause for a minute.
December 10th, 2020 / 1:20 p.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Justin Vaive
Mr. Turnbull, it's Justin here in the committee room. You might want to unplug your mike and plug it back in. That sometimes addresses the issue.
Madam Chair, we'll have to suspend while we try to fix this.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ruby Sahota
Mr. Turnbull, you are sounding better. I will resume the time and you can carry on.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thank you.
My apologies. I was beginning to ask about tactical or hardball prorogations, which is a term that Mr. Lagassé used. I wonder if you could comment on whether the prorogation of 2008 by Prime Minister Stephen Harper would be, in your view, a tactical or hardball prorogation. It was said, in many cases, to have avoided a confidence vote. Would you agree with that?
1:20 p.m.
Associate Professor, International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
I would say it was hardball, but as you'll see at the end of my remarks, I also point out that there may be a justification where the government feels that the Commons or parties in the Commons are engaged in an equal degree of hardball. You can ask, was that effort to oust the government immediately after a confidence vote an equal measure? But yes, sir, I will say that in that case I would qualify it as such.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Thanks.
Were you aware that Stephen Harper's government also prorogued for 32 days in 2007?
1:20 p.m.
Associate Professor, International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Yes, sir. Or in 2009, you mean, sir?
1:20 p.m.
Associate Professor, International Affairs, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Prorogations as a routine procedure, you mean, in a non-controversial setting, correct?
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON
Yes, in 2008 for 53 days, in 2009 for 63 days and 2013 for 33 days. Were you aware of those over six years, those four prorogations?