Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 16th, 2021

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

I'm not denying that we all go off-script, much to the chagrin of our staff sometimes, but I just wanted to confirm that the only reason in your mind was to come back with a plan.

I want to talk a little bit about committees. Your government often says that committees are independent and that they don't take orders from the centre, if you will. After prorogation, what we saw was a rather concerted effort on multiple committees to filibuster the committees, to block motions from coming forward and to suspend meetings for days on end.

Do you stand by your decision that none of that was coordinated and it was all entirely independently done by individual committees?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

You're confirming that there was no coordination and no communication with committee members on any of these committees from the House leader's office, from the whip's office or from Liberal Party operatives.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Nater, I had the privilege to be in opposition for seven years. I was trying to do your job as best I could. Mr. Lukiwski was there, and some of you were there at the time. I knew then and I know today how important it is to keep the independence of those committees, and we respect that. I'm sure you do too on your side. It's fundamental.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

It is a privilege to serve in opposition. I hope you get an opportunity to serve in opposition once again.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I've been there before.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

It's quite an honour.

I want to go back to this. There were no emails, no memos and no communications between the House leader, the whip's office, Liberal Party operatives and members of the committee.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'm sure there's regular communication between members of a caucus. I'm sure you do the same thing, but are we there to direct committees? No. The committees are masters of their own destinies. They do their job and they do it well. It's fundamental in our democracy.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

The Liberal Party 2015 platform says fairly clearly, “We will not resort to legislative tricks to avoid scrutiny. Stephen Harper has used prorogation to avoid difficult political circumstances.”

Would you not agree that the WE scandal was a very difficult political situation for your government and your party?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You're trying to make a link between that and the prorogation. As I explained before, there isn't one. COVID-19 in itself is important enough to prorogue and reset.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

That's with the helpful benefit of a political situation there.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Mr. Nater.

Mr. Turnbull, you have five minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez, for being here. It's a pleasure to see you and I really appreciate all your collaborative leadership throughout this pandemic.

There have been some implications that other committee members have made here, but you said in your opening remarks that no one really could have predicted the biggest health and economic crisis of our time. In the first throne speech there was no mention of all kinds of things that appeared in the renewed throne speech we got more recently.

In terms of the significant impact and context shift that we saw during COVID-19, could you highlight one or two aspects of that? I think what you said was that the contextual shift really required a re-evaluation of the government's priorities. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but maybe you could talk about those big impacts.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It was huge, I would say, for all of us. Just think about the fact that we're here on a screen. We can't meet in person and we can't go to Parliament. Everything changed, Mr. Turnbull, as you say. I'm sure all colleagues agree on that.

The first throne speech was really about looking forward, being innovative and looking to the future, but it was based on the present. It was based on the situation we were in. There was no word of testing, vaccination, relaunching the economy, massive loss of jobs or closing the borders. That didn't exist. We needed to adapt. Honestly, we did the best we could for a while.

Again, I'm turning to Mr. Deltell and Mr. Therrien, and Mr. Julian for the NDP. We sat together and we were able to work for Canadians, but we got to a moment where it was clear that we were heading into a second wave. We didn't know how big it was going to be. It's huge. We needed to reset, and this is what we did.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

It's as if there was a moment of crisis with all hands on deck. Would it be fair to say we were working full out, as effectively as possible, for a period of time, and that between the first and second waves there was a moment where it seemed like a good time to reflect and ask ourselves if we were on the right path? Would you say that's true?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You're absolutely right.

I cherish those few weeks that we had in the summer, when things seemed more positive. There was sun and we could go outside, but at the same time we knew that things were about to change and this second wave was going to hit us. We saw at that moment that other countries were being hit by that second wave. At the same time, we were heading into the fall and winter, which meant schools being back and people being inside, so there would be more challenges and more danger of contamination.

We had been working since day one without a clear plan. We had been doing the best we could, collectively. I'm looking at all the parties. We needed that frame—that big plan—and this is what we went to get with the throne speech.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

Just for clarification, several other members have made comments about rewriting a speech and how it would take only 30 minutes or that it's very easy to rewrite a throne speech. I seem to recall a very significant, worthwhile consultation process that happened leading into the throne speech. I'm a new member of Parliament. I don't know if that's a regular occurrence, but from what I hear from other members, you don't usually have that big a consultation process leading into a throne speech.

Do you want to speak to that, Mr. Rodriguez, in terms of the process?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Absolutely.

Any throne speech will take time, but for a throne speech that is a master plan to fight a pandemic not seen since the Spanish flu, coupled with this recession, of course you will need time. Of course you will consult. Of course you will need to talk to experts. Who am I to say that this is what we have to do to end the pandemic or to relaunch the economy? I have my own ideas. We consult people from everywhere—experts—and took some time to draft the speech, and this led us to the second throne speech.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ruby Sahota]

Thank you, Minister.

Next we have Mr. Therrien.

You have two and a half minutes, Mr. Therrien.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'll ask a straightforward question. We're talking about telework; the Canada emergency response benefit, or CERB; the wage subsidy; and getting a vaccine.

When did we start talking about all this, Mr. Rodriguez?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

During the first phase.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

When was the first phase?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

When we collectively became aware of all this and shut down Parliament, in March. At that point, we had already known since February that things—

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Okay. So in March.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes.