Evidence of meeting #22 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Steve Bell  Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service
Commissioner Michael Duheme  Deputy Commissioner, Federal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Luc Beaudoin  Director, Service de police de la Ville de Gatineau
Superintendent Carson Pardy  Regional Commander, North East Region, Ontario Provincial Police
Andrew Scheer  Regina—Qu'Appelle, CPC
Mark Gerretsen  Kingston and the Islands, Lib.
Rachel Blaney  North Island—Powell River, NDP
Brad Vis  Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC
Kelly Block  Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, CPC
Rob Wright  Assistant Deputy Minister, Science and Parliamentary Infrastructure Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

11:50 a.m.

North Island—Powell River, NDP

Rachel Blaney

Thank you.

Through you, Madam Chair, could I ask what the impact will be on the PPS, then, specifically if the precinct grows?

11:55 a.m.

D/Commr Michael Duheme

Madam Chair, I'm just speculating, but if it grows, obviously, additional resources may be required if the mandate remains the same.

There is a coordination right now with OPS and RCMP, so it's to determine whether there's an additional role that PPS can take on if we decide to extend the precinct. I will leave that to the review committee.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Excellent.

Ms. Blaney, would you like another minute right now, and then I can just not give it in the second round? Do you want to continue with your line of questioning?

11:55 a.m.

North Island—Powell River, NDP

Rachel Blaney

Sure. My last question has to do with the expansion of the streets and what that would include. With that inclusion, I guess.... I don't know.

No, I don't have a question. It's for PPS and I don't think that they're here, so I'll just leave it at that.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Excellent. Thank you for sharing that with us.

Now, because time is limited, I am going to entertain a very tight second round, and it will preferably be four to five minutes for Mr. Vis, followed by four to five minutes for Mr. Turnbull and one minute for Madame Gaudreau.

Ms. Blaney, I'll come back to you should you have a quick question.

Mr. Vis.

11:55 a.m.

Brad Vis Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses here today.

Through you, Madam Chair, Mr. Bell outlined in his exchange with Mr. Scheer that the people of Ottawa were terrorized. Can he please define what he meant by “terrorized” and whether anyone was charged with an act of terrorism under Canada's Criminal Code during, before or after the Emergencies Act?

11:55 a.m.

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Chief Steve Bell

Thank you, Madam Chair. I can absolutely clarify that.

There were no acts of terrorism. There were no charges laid around any of those acts. What I can say is that during the convoy, during the occupation, we received 2,200 calls for service, which resulted in 280 arrests from 410 different Criminal Code investigations, with 118 people charged and 466 criminal charges laid that continue to go through the court.

What those identified was—

11:55 a.m.

Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC

Brad Vis

I'm sorry, Mr. Bell, but I have a very short time for questioning. That was a comprehensive answer.

My second question, Madam Chair, through you, is for Deputy Commissioner Duheme.

At last week's declaration of emergency committee, my colleague Larry Brock didn't have time to finish a line of questioning about the RCMP's technical capacity to conduct non-invasive detection of explosive materials.

I won't ask about the specifics of those techniques, but I do want to know if it is true that, for at least the first two weeks of the convoy protest, the RCMP denied or ignored requests from the Ottawa Police Service or the Parliamentary Protective Service to provide or lend its technical capacity?

11:55 a.m.

D/Commr Michael Duheme

Madam Chair, I am unaware of any requests that we did not respond to.

11:55 a.m.

Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC

Brad Vis

Okay.

Through you, Madam Chair, to the deputy commissioner, do you deny absolutely that the Ottawa Police Service or the Parliamentary Protective Service made any such requests?

11:55 a.m.

D/Commr Michael Duheme

Madam Chair, I'm unaware of any requests.

11:55 a.m.

Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC

Brad Vis

Madam Chair, through you, to Chief Bell, do you agree with the deputy commissioner's statement?

11:55 a.m.

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Chief Steve Bell

I am also unaware of any requests.

11:55 a.m.

Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC

Brad Vis

Through you, Madam Chair, to Chief Beaudoin, were the Gatineau police capable of handling whatever spillover events occurred on your side of the Ottawa River during the convoy protests?

11:55 a.m.

Director, Service de police de la Ville de Gatineau

Luc Beaudoin

Madam Chair, thanks to the collaboration of our partners and the coordination centre on the Gatineau side, we were able to plan and act accordingly.

11:55 a.m.

Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC

Brad Vis

Thank you.

Through you, Madam Chair, some of our Liberal colleagues have proposed, as we've been discussing, expanding federal security jurisdiction into downtown Ottawa. Given the previous answer from the chief of police from Gatineau, would having more federal entities exercising greater on-the-ground policing or security authority in the city of Gatineau help or hinder Gatineau's police service to do its job?

Noon

Director, Service de police de la Ville de Gatineau

Luc Beaudoin

Madam Chair, again, whether or not we extend federal jurisdiction over the operational security of the parliamentary precinct, it will require coordination between the various partners. That will be key to making this a success.

Noon

Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC

Brad Vis

Madam Chair, how much time do I have left?

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

You have 10 seconds.

Noon

Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC

Brad Vis

Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Mr. Vis, I always enjoy you. Thank you so much for your concise questions and for not interrupting too much. Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Turnbull.

Noon

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Thank you to everyone for being here today. It's an important conversation. I appreciate your leadership and hard work.

I want to ask a very simple question, and I think I'll start with you, Mr. Bell. I think you answered this in your opening remarks, but I want to get it on the record one more time.

Would you say that having optimum clarity of role and jurisdictional responsibility improves crisis management in an emergency situation like the occupation of our downtown?

Noon

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Chief Steve Bell

Madam Chair, I can absolutely say that is the case and what led to success.

Noon

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Thank you very much.

Chief Bell, maybe I'll also ask you this. In terms of MPs' security and safety and their staff who work on the Hill, how many incidents were you aware of where MPs or their staff were either harassed or threatened in any way by the occupation?

Noon

Interim Chief, Ottawa Police Service

Chief Steve Bell

Madam Chair, I don't have that information at my fingertips. I'm unaware, but I believe that may be better directed to Mr. Duheme, who would be responsible for the initial response to those incidents.