Procedure and House Affairs Committee on May 31st, 2022

[Christine Leadman]

No, I don't.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

On the bottom of your screen you should be able to pick “English”, and then you would be able to have translation for the whole meeting. That is noted.

We will perhaps get a question to you and ask you to maybe submit an answer in writing. How's that?

[Christine Leadman]

That's perfect. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Perfect.

We will be moving on to Mr. Boulerice.

Mr. Boulerice, you have the floor for seven minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm pleased to be with you today for this study.

I've lived in Montreal for 30 years. I know that different municipal administrations have profoundly changed the city, in particular by converting traffic lanes into pedestrian streets. There was a lot of concern for urban greening. Efforts were made to address heat islands and increase the availability of public transit and active transportation. That changed the quality of life for residents and opened up new opportunities for them. I find that an exciting prospect for the national capital.

Mr. Royer, you spoke about decisions made in relation to the Alexandra Bridge, the Confederation Boulevard loop, public transit and active transportation, and the exclusion of motor vehicle transportation.

I am more or less in favour of that, but I have concerns about social acceptability.

In your opinion, should we hold public consultations to explain the alternatives to people?

[Claude Royer]

There should indeed be public consultations, as with any decision or analysis of the options. Moreover, those consultations were not held by Public Works and Government Services Canada prior to making a decision.

Motor vehicle traffic represents only 10% of all traffic on the bridge. During closures for maintenance work, for example, there were not many complaints from people on the island or residents on either side of the river.

What's important to people is pedestrian and cyclist traffic. The replacement plans do not indicate how long pedestrians and cyclists will be without that link. There will therefore be significant temporary repercussions on the quality of life of people on both sides of the river.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Royer.

Mr. McRobie, one expression I like is “never waste a crisis” because a crisis is always an opportunity to clear the way and improve things. I think we're in that situation.

I was glad to hear that a unique product must be offered. You said that it was a place for people and that we're doing all this for them.

When I look at Wellington Street today, I clearly see that it is possible to have a tramway there and to plant trees. It is majestic, but it is not very user-friendly. There are no businesses or services for the pedestrians who will use it, whether residents or tourists.

What is your vision? How could we develop the street so that it has not just big beautiful buildings, but also some life?

[David McRobie]

I think perhaps the idea is to not be too concerned about the length of Wellington Street and how to program events for people through that length. This is the forecourt of Parliament Hill. One has to think in the north-south direction as much as the east-west and also of the linkages to the war monument, the National War Memorial, and to other features in the immediate area.

Rather than being concerned with activation and programming across its length, perhaps, there are plenty of considerations. Some of them are seasonal, for instance. This city changes dramatically in the winter, and there's a vision that we have of having sculptures illuminated at night and all kinds of ideas for programming that would bring people to what otherwise is now just a street filled with cars.

There is a programming aspect, but I want to encourage the idea that, with the expenditure of the federal government of hundreds of millions of dollars on the complex that is going to be created under PP2 immediately on the doorstep of Wellington Street, we can do better than Wellington Street. That PP2 project will itself be a draw because of its activation on the ground floor.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Plamondon. I'd like to ask you roughly the same question I just asked Mr. McRobie.

How do you see the new Wellington Street? Do you see it as a place for tourists, or as a place where there's life and that would be fun for families from Ottawa and Gatineau?

[Robert Plamondon]

I see it as a national gathering place where people come together. Just imagine strolling down Wellington Street and looking up at all the institutions of our government. It's not just Parliament Hill. Walk down Wellington Street to see the Supreme Court as well as the Bank of Canada Museum and the Senate. There are many statues as well, as Mr. McRobie has said, with the redevelopment of PP2.

We have seen even on Wellington Street at various points in time where there have been pop-ups.... I wouldn't call them restaurants, but evening soirees where dinner is served and there are places for people to gather. I can envision that there could be monuments to certain aspects of Canadian history. It would take you down even to the Garden of the Provinces, for example, which probably most people in the national capital region don't know exists, but it's on Wellington Street.

I think it would introduce people to all of the institutions and probably make it a more welcoming walk and visit to go down to, for example, the Holocaust monument and others. This is going to be a place for your bikes and for walking that will be a natural attraction and will inspire Canadians and people around the world.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Plamondon.

I'm finished, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Perfect.

Thank you.

Now we are going to have one more quick round, so committee will run about five to seven minutes late.

I believe the five minutes are for you, Mrs. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

My time will actually be taken by Mr. Vis.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

That was great testimony again in the second round. To the coalition here, through you, Madam Chair, I really appreciate the renderings. There is a lot of inspiration there.

My first question will go to Ms. Leadman.

What impact, through you, Madam Chair, has the downtown business association felt from having public servants working from home? I know, having previously lived and worked in Ottawa, that a lot of the downtown business traffic comes from public servants and that the majority are still working remotely. What impact has that had on the bottom line of businesses that have traditionally supported public servants?

[Christine Leadman]

Thank you very much.

Yes, the impact of the federal employees not being in their workplaces has been significant. We have seen some come back but the numbers are very minimal, and that includes the private sector.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Absolutely. Have you done any studies on the economic consequences of that?

[Christine Leadman]

We're just in the process of doing these studies. They were interrupted by the protests. We redirected our consultant to look at the impacts of the protests, to give the federal government an idea of what those impacts were. When we see a loss of $500,000 a day in sales, we're looking at probably slightly lower losses, but they would be.... Businesses are deciding whether they will continue to operate in the downtown core if they do not see the return of the federal government. This is what businesses are saying to us now. They're looking at their upcoming leases and deciding whether they will continue to lease in the downtown core.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you.

To Mr. Royer, through you, Madam Chair, has any analysis regarding the costs of upgrading the Alexandra Bridge been completed?

[Claude Royer]

There was a life-cost analysis performed on behalf of Public Works, which was delivered in 2018. It presents certain options for either maintaining the bridge or replacing it with what you would call an iconic signature bridge or a run-of-the-mill steel bridge. What's interesting is that this study concluded that having a signature bridge would still be more costly in any hypothesis than would be maintaining the current bridge. This fact has puzzled the coalition. What's the rationale for going ahead when you know the difference in costs are not clear and the economic advantage is not clear?

To add to that just one more thing, that study called for further studies of heritage and those studies were not done before a decision was made.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Through you, Madam Chair, hopefully we can stick a few studies and get a bridge constructed soon, because with inflation I'm assuming the 2018 numbers will be much higher today, and I think that is a critical piece of infrastructure.

Through you, Madam Chair, to Mr. McRobie, I was really impressed with the renderings you gave. I come from a riding that represents 31 indigenous bands and six different first nations, and I am wondering whether there's any indigenous representation on your committee and what your group might have considered around adding an indigenous component to the Wellington Street improvement.

[David McRobie]

I think it probably is more appropriate for Mr. Plamondon to answer that question rather than me.

[Robert Plamondon]

Through you, Madam Chair, yes, we have reached out to indigenous communities to get their views on the parliamentary precinct. I would say that there is not at this point any consensus or necessarily an alignment on this particular project itself, but there is ongoing discussion and making them aware of what the vision is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

That's excellent. Thank you.

Mr. Naqvi, four minutes go to you.

[Yasir Naqvi, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair. Through you, I'll ask Ms. Leadman my first question.

The purpose of this study is to see if we expand the parliamentary precinct or not. That does not necessarily mean that Wellington Street will be closed. The idea is to help ensure that we don't have the kind of occupation in the future that we saw just recently and that, according to you, had a dire impact on our businesses. Would the Bank Street BIA be supportive of taking any steps necessary to mitigate future protests that are disruptive to businesses?

[Christine Leadman]

Definitely, and we feel that there is an integrated approach that can be taken. We were on the phone every day with local councillors, police and other politicians at every level throughout the whole process. It was soul wearying in terms of the impacts it was having, and I think had a great emotional and mental impact on our members as well.

We would be supportive of finding methods to ensure that the democratic right of protest is still there, but it has to be in an integrated approach and organized in a way so that the city and other agencies have an idea of what to expect and they can prepare in advance and not react, as opposed to what happened in the past.