Evidence of meeting #31 for Procedure and House Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was able.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Stéphan Aubé  Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons
Michel Patrice  Deputy Clerk, Administration, House of Commons
Eric Janse  Deputy Clerk, Procedure, House of Commons
Charles Robert  Clerk of the House of Commons
Dona Cadman  Former Member of Parliament, As an Individual
Léo Duguay  President, Canadian Association of Former Parliamentarians

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Blaine Calkins Conservative Red Deer—Lacombe, AB

Is it reasonable to ask that we might consider seeing whether somebody has the capability to offer that advice?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

I think the job of this committee is to make sure that we get the best system possible and the best recommendations possible. If the committee determines that's what they want, I think it should be looked at.

I certainly wouldn't stand in the way of having a third party look at it. It has to be an impartial third party who is willing to look at all the options and recommend what they believe is best.

Personally, I don't see a problem with it.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Thank you, Mr. Calkins.

Mr. Gerretsen, you have five minutes.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Thank you very much.

With respect to Mr. Calkins' last question about ensuring security virtually, is the House in any way able to ensure that a member who participates in person in a committee meeting does not release any of that in camera information once they leave the committee room?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

I can answer that one. I think the answer is obviously no.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

How do we ensure the credibility of committee meetings? Is it not based on the honour of the member being assumed?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

I think we're talking about two different things. One is on the honour of the member and the other one is somebody eavesdropping online. I think these are two things.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Aubé's response was specifically about how he is unable to determine what happens on the other end. If I am participating from my living room, he's unable to know if there's somebody out of the screenshot whom I have let listen in on a meeting.

In a similar vein, it's not possible to ensure that I don't leave a meeting that I personally have been involved in and share that information, right? To that end, all of our committee meetings, as with our proceedings in the House, are all based on the honour of the individual. Am I correct in that?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

There is no question.

Mr. Aubé, did you want to add to that?

11:55 a.m.

Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons

Stéphan Aubé

No. I would agree with that statement.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Thank you.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

Please address your comments through the chair.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Right. Of course, Madam Chair.

She is very, very good at this. Mr. Speaker, I would be concerned if I were you. I think she's eyeing your job.

My next question, Madam Chair, through you, would be with respect to....

I know that early on in the pandemic, when the hybrid provisions were implemented, there were a few incidents in which individuals immediately jumped at the opportunity to abuse that. For example, if I recall correctly, one member participated from Oklahoma—out of the country. Another member participated from a boat on Lake Simcoe, if I remember correctly.

I'm wondering if there's any way to be able to control that an individual is actually following the rules, i.e., participating from within Canada, which is what our rules state. Is there any way to ensure that, or, again, are we relying on the member to do the honourable thing, which is to obey the rules?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

When we talk about the honourable member, we talk about honourable members, people who are sticking to the rules and trying to make sure that everything works well. Yes, we're relying on the individual. That's from a personal point of view.

From a technical point of view, it's something that I would like to let Mr. Aubé answer, because I know one of the parameters is that you have to be in Canada. Lake Simcoe is in Canada. That's not a problem, so you could be fishing and participating, which I'm not sure—

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

That's as the rules are stated right now.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

It's as the rules indicate right now, but Oklahoma is not in Canada. There are two parameters, and it's making sure the individuals know what the rules are.

Mr. Aubé, on technical parameters, I don't know if there's anything there that we can enforce.

Noon

Chief Information Officer, Digital Services and Real Property, House of Commons

Stéphan Aubé

If I can add through you, Madam Chair, we had the technical capabilities, sir, but, if you remember, in time we made the decision for the honourable member, if they were not in Canada, to identify themselves as not being there, because we didn't want to prevent a member from participating in an event.

Noon

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

I think it's fair to say, through you, Madam Chair, whatever is adopted in a hybrid model we would look to apply in terms of an individual who is participating in the House. It needs to come from the same perspective of doing things in an honourable fashion as it would if they're doing it on hybrid.

Noon

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

If it's being done dishonourably, then our system doesn't work. Yes, it is up to the honour of the individual. I'm sure that Canadian people do not elect dishonourable people.

Noon

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Do I have any time left? I'll give it to Mr. Turnbull.

Noon

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

How much time is there, Madam Chair?

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bardish Chagger

You have 15 seconds.

Noon

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

It's all yours.

Noon

Liberal

Ryan Turnbull Liberal Whitby, ON

Through you, Madam Chair, to Speaker Rota, you said that a Parliament may continue to function regardless of what's thrown at it. I thought that was really insightful.

In your opinion, is this study really just a matter of looking at business continuity for our Parliament in times of crisis?

Noon

Liberal

Anthony Rota Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

That's exactly it.

It's not only in crisis but how you want to look at adapting to what's out there. That's something that's going to be key to the report that comes out of this committee, in my opinion, because we'll be able to look at it, or parliamentarians will be able to look at it, and say, "Okay, this is the recommendation so we can continue to make sure democracy works in Canada."