Procedure and House Affairs Committee on Feb. 1st, 2022

[Rob Wright]

Again, I'll start and then ask Ms. Garrett to add some details.

With regard to capacity, at this point in the industry, given the stage we're at in the project, which is really around the demolition, abatement and excavation work, we've not seen any real issues with capacity. It is a concern, though; there's no question about that. We've had a lot of engagement with the Canadian Construction Association around capacity. As well, we work very closely with our partners on the construction side. If you look 10 years out, there are anticipated retirements in the construction industry. We're working closely with the industry to try to ensure that capacity is provided as we look forward. So far so good, I would say, but there's work to be done there.

On the diversity side of things we're spending a lot of work and effort. I would give some real kudos to the construction industry. Our partners PCL and EllisDon have really been partners in working to try to build capacity and broaden opportunities, whether that's to indigenous communities or to other under-represented groups such as females and others.

We do have a good track record. On the West Block, we had the biggest apprenticeship program for females in masonry in North America. We have done some good things in the past, and we continue to focus on it, but it won't happen on its own.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you. That brings you to time, Ms. Blaney.

Mr. Vis, you have five minutes.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

It's really nice to be here with all of you today and to have the presentation.

I have a couple of really quick questions. I have five minutes, so I'll move quickly. How many contractors are part of the parliamentary precinct rebuild?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I'm going to pause the clock for a second, because I know this line of questioning.

To the witnesses, usually the time period that a member uses for a question is the time that is given to you for an answer. Just to respect and keep a breath between speakers for interpreters, I would ask you to be mindful of that.

Mr. Vis, it's great to see you too. Maybe we can give them double the time, because they don't do QP like we do.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll slow down my line of questioning.

Can we restart?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Yes. Let's do that.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Again, it's a real pleasure to see all of you here today.

How many contractors are involved in the rebuild of the parliamentary precinct?

[Rob Wright]

It would be very difficult today to give you an exact number of all the contractors across the whole precinct. There are two really important things. One is the size and scale of this work. On the very, very big projects, we work with some very big firms. Then there's a web of subcontracts.

If you look at the Centre Block, for example, we have PCL and EllisDon as a joint venture for construction management, but over 500 companies have contracts. It spans from coast to coast. It's a very large economic footprint. We have a lot of opportunities for companies to get involved.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you. That answers my question.

The second question I have is this. Given that there hasn't been a report done by the Auditor General since 2010, and we're talking about a very large sum of public money, can you explain to this committee what processes are in place to ensure that contracts are meeting their obligations and, when they're not, what processes are taken to ensure they're no longer accessing these lucrative and very valuable government contracts?

[Rob Wright]

We have a quite robust project management regime, with a lot of details. I'll ask Ms. Garrett to add some.

What's really important is that we've had a number of firms over the past decade, since that last Auditor General report, come in and do open book accounting audits. PricewaterhouseCoopers has come in. We've had others come in and do audits of the projects—West Block, Sir John A. Macdonald, etc. We've also had outside firms come in and do audits of the project management practices. We've done a lot of that work. We have open book accounting with the firms that we're in partnership with.

I'll hand it over to Ms. Garrett.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Answer very briefly, please.

[Jennifer Garrett]

Very briefly, in terms of Centre Block, we had an extensive internal audit of our program execution plan that was conducted by internal PSPC auditors, which includes everything from how we're going to manage money to risk, etc. That audit was completed last year, and it was a very substantial undertaking.

Our financials are constantly spot audited within the department as well, to make sure that we're paying for the goods and services. It's to get a sense of the kind of things that we are doing to ensure there is a robust oversight framework managing the program.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'm from British Columbia. Parliament is very far away for many of the people I represent.

A few years ago, when I was a staffer, my sister came to Ottawa to visit for the first time. She walked up to the front of the parliamentary precinct and said, “Brad, why is there a unicorn with a chain around its neck and its tongue sticking out?” I said, “Well, Maegen, the Canada bondage unicorn is the symbol of Canada, and when anyone walks through the parliamentary precinct, they see all these weird-looking types of creatures.” To this day—maybe you could get back to the committee on this—I have asked the Library of Parliament, but I've never received a solid answer about what the unicorn with the chain around its neck and its tongue sticking out in front of Parliament Hill actually means to our country.

If you could report back to this committee, my little sister would love to know what the unicorn means for Canada and why it's so important to have it on the front of our parliamentary precinct.

[An hon. member]

You might not want to know the answer to that.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I might not.

[Michel Patrice]

We've taken note of it. We'll do some research and get back to the committee.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you. My sister is going to be very pleased.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Mr. Vis, would you like your last 20 seconds?

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Yes.

Maybe you could also report back to the committee on how contractors in British Columbia can access the calls for proposals for contracts that will be coming forward. These are really lucrative jobs and I know some of them can be done remotely, especially on the engineering and design side of things, so that would be very helpful to provide the committee as well, if that's okay.

[Rob Wright]

I'm happy to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Excellent. Thank you.

Mr. Fergus now has five minutes.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would also like to thank the witnesses for their update on this extraordinary and extraordinarily complex project of renovating the Parliament of Canada.

Mr. Wright, you talked about the parliamentary precinct and the importance of creating an environment that will occupy Parliament Hill and whose footprint will also extend to the three other streets of downtown Ottawa. I think Mr. Patrice also mentioned this in his presentation or his answers.

For security reasons or in order to create a meeting place for Canadians, have you thought about turning Wellington Street into a pedestrian street, especially in front of the parliamentary precinct?

[Rob Wright]

Thank you very much for the question.

Of course, discussions have been held about Wellington Street over the past few years. Recently, the tramway project once again raised questions about whether the route would be on Wellington Street. There will be opportunities for those kinds of discussions. Of course, there would be benefits in terms of security, as well as for visitors. However, the city of Ottawa would encounter significant inconveniences, so those discussions would be paramount. This topic has already been discussed.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I will build on the question Ms. Blaney asked about spaces not only for members, but also for senators, to hold committee meetings.

I assume that, once the project is completed, we will discuss what we will do, for instance, with the House of Commons here in West Block. Are there any plans to turn it into committee rooms or offices? Will we keep it to be used as a second debating chamber, or has that not been decided yet?

[Michel Patrice]

Thank you for the question.

No plans have been developed concerning the temporary House in West Block. We recognize that, by the end of the construction work on Centre Block, there may be a lot of shifting and changes in terms of parliamentarians' or committees' needs.

It is important to say that, when this temporary House was designed and built, we took into account the fact that significant modifications could take place, including the integration of various committee rooms or offices for parliamentarians, or any other use that would meet current needs.

The strength of all participants in the parliamentary precinct rehabilitation project is experience, but also agility. Everyone must be aware that yesterday's plans will not necessarily be tomorrow's plans. We have to design for the future while learning from the past.