Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 7th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

No, you're great. Keep going.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. By the way, you're doing an incredible job chairing this committee. I've been watching this on TV, and I have to say that you have infinite patience and I'm very impressed. Obviously, I want to say the same about many of my colleagues here today. I've seen infinite patience from Ms. Blaney, and I've seen infinite patience from all of the members, so thank you for that.

Coming back to the question of whom this committee should call as witnesses, I do believe it is important to hear from the national campaign directors. The national campaign directors of each party have more knowledge than anyone about the election in each of the individual 338 Canadian ridings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I'm sorry, Mr. Housefather. Just because we have the opportunity now, would you like to move your boom just a little bit lower?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Absolutely. Is this better, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

That is much better. There is so much excitement with what you're saying that we might have to start all over. I'm kidding.

Continue. Thank you, Mr. Housefather.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Coming back to that question, the national campaign directors of each party are the ones who hear back from the candidates and the organizers across the country. They take into account what they're hearing, especially the unusual facts they're hearing on the ground in different ridings. Those people would come to the committee, I believe, with a wealth of knowledge about where the committee might want to look and what it might want to look at in investigating foreign interference.

Right now we're talking about potential financial foreign interference, passing money through intermediaries or directly, and the question of whether nominations need to be governed by Elections Canada. The national campaign chairs would probably have opinions on that.

I feel it's very important that the committee call representatives of the Liberals and the Conservatives, but also of the NDP and the Bloc Québécois. That way, everyone will share their perspective on the issue, which is quite interesting.

There's then the question of bringing the parties' representatives to the security and intelligence threats to elections task force before the committee. Again, these were the people who were given security clearance. These were the people who were told they had a job to interface with the threats through the elections task force.

They would share the perspective of how they were communicated with, where they felt they should have been communicated with at an earlier time and what they think the thresholds should be for that type of communication. Maybe those thresholds, as we saw in the report we recently received from the retired civil servant, were not at the right levels. There were a lot of good recommendations in that report that these people would be able to add on to if they come before the PROC committee and are given the opportunity to share their recommendations. I believe it's valuable to receive that perspective from each and every one of the different parties, not just two of the four recognized parties in the House of Commons.

Finally, Madam Chair, as I wind up my remarks, the main issue here is that there are many different multi-faceted ways in which we need to deal with election interference. Election interference will not be countered by only one intelligence service or by only one way of going about it.

I strongly support the foreign lobbyist registry, which is now being consulted on by Public Safety and Minister Mendicino. I strongly support NSICOP looking into the threats we faced in 2019 and 2021 and making recommendations.

I strongly believe we need to continue to have a non-partisan group of civil servants who warn politicians. We probably need to have a better ability for all people running in elections to be warned by either Elections Canada or CSIS as to what threats they may face in an election campaign.

All of these things are looking forward. The main thing I would leave the committee with is that we need to look forward as to how we improve on what is there now and how we do it in a way that each and every one of us, from all parties, can agree upon and feel we're adding to something by doing it.

I'm confident that this group of parliamentarians with representatives from all political parties, colleagues whom I respect very much, will be able to come to a good understanding.

Madam Chair, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak this evening.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you, Mr. Housefather. I appreciate those comments.

I have a speaking list that has grown all of a sudden, really quickly, so I'm going to suspend this meeting. We will continue with this discussion, hopefully, on Tuesday, but if anything else changes, I will let you know.

Thank you for your time. Keep well and safe.

To all of the supporting staff, we appreciate your service.

Have a good day.

[The meeting was suspended at 10:09 p.m., Tuesday, March 14]

[The meeting resumed at 11 a.m., Tuesday, March 21]

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I call the meeting to order.

We are resuming meeting number 57 of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

We are picking up where we left off last Tuesday. The committee is continuing debate on the amendment by Ryan Turnbull.

Comments should go through the chair, as you know. The clerk and I will maintain a consolidated speaking list. From last time, we have, based on who is present, Mr. Fergus, Mrs. Romanado and Mr. Barrett making up our speaking list.

Would you like to be added? Okay. That's perfect.

Mr. Fergus, you have the floor.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Madam Chair, I withdraw my name from the list for the time being. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Mrs. Romanado, go ahead.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Madam Chair, I also withdraw my name for now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

For my sanity, you're not asking to be added to the list. You'll let me know if you want to be added back onto the list. That's excellent.

Mr. Barrett, go ahead.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Madam Chair, it's been nearly 24 hours of filibuster on the amendment and the main motion.

I saw on my way into committee a message sent to the media by the Prime Minister’s Office that Ms. Telford is volunteering to come before the committee. Hopefully, that puts other members' minds at ease.

It's important that we're able to get to the heart of this matter and find out what Ms. Telford knew, when she knew it and what the government did in response to that knowledge. Canadians are looking for transparency, and they're looking to us to bring that to them. That's our role. I would hope that we'd be able to get to a vote on this matter right away.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Thank you, Mr. Barrett.

Mr. Julian.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'm pleased to be subbing in at procedure and House affairs. As Mr. Barrett just mentioned, Katie Telford has agreed to testify before the procedure and House affairs committee. I think that's significant.

I would like to call the question on the motion that is before the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

That's exciting, because my list is coming to an end, and I'm not seeing signals. I'm just going to let those who are on the list also speak to it.

I have Mr. Cooper, followed by Madam Gaudreau.

Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to move a subamendment. We will distribute it among members. It's translated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Why don't we do that, and then I'll give you back the floor.

We'll have the subamendment emailed to everyone, and we'll go from there.

We'll have a quick suspension.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

Excellent.

I believe everyone has received what they were supposed to receive.

Mr. Cooper.

[Michael Cooper, Conservative, St. Albert—Edmonton, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We have, first of all, an amendment to my motion to call Katie Telford to testify before this committee. That is an amendment brought by Mr. Turnbull, which would be to remove Katie Telford from the motion entirely. That amendment needs to be dealt with first.

I believe there is agreement among the parties to have a vote on that motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

I think there is an understanding that we would like to have a vote on Mr. Turnbull's amendment.

The amendment that Mr. Turnbull proposed was actually not to change (a). It was changing (b), so it was actually not removing Ms. Telford. Just to correct the record as to what amendment we're on, it was changing the same section that Ms. Blaney had changed.

I stand corrected. It was replacing everything.

Now we will have the vote, if there is agreement, on Mr. Turnbull's amendment.

Are you rising on a point of order, Mr. Baker?

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Could I just ask the clerk to read what we're voting on?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We'll give you a copy, Mr. Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bardish Chagger]

We'll bring copies to Ms. Sudds as well.